Scenic Route, Social Change and Mental Health Conversations for Perfectionists
Forget the fast lane! The Scenic Route is where perfectionists slow down, get better, and create real change.
We explore:
- Mental health wisdom (minus toxic positivity)
- Social change (that starts from within)
- System critiques (with actionable solutions)
- Inner wisdom (over external validation)
- Mindfulness for minimalists (no crystals required)
Join Jennifer Walter, sociologist (MASoc UCC) and recovering perfectionist, for weekly conversations that blend critical thinking with oh-so-much compassion.
Whether you're questioning everything or trying to find peace amongst the chaos, you'll find space here for your inner voice, mindset, mental health, and collective change—you're in the right place. We make space for both personal healing and collective change—with a side of potty humour.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
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The view up here is *chef's kiss.*
Scenic Route, Social Change and Mental Health Conversations for Perfectionists
How to Build Thriving Communities: Championing Reciprocity and Equity with Becky Mollenkamp
What if embracing community could radically transform your mental health and personal growth?
Join me as I sit down with Becky Mollenkamp, an accountability coach and intersectional feminist, to unravel her inspiring journey from a childhood devoid of community to discovering its immense value after becoming a parent. Becky opens up about the often overwhelming challenges of motherhood and how finding supportive communities can alleviate self-judgment and societal pressures. Her insights shine a light on the pivotal role of community in nurturing our well-being and fostering meaningful connections.
Why tune in
- Community vs. Capitalism: Comparing nurturing communities to extractive, individualistic systems.
- Mutual Support and Equity: Balancing contributions to meet everyone’s needs over time.
- Consent and Contributions: Importance in business and personal relationships, challenging societal perfectionism.
- Inclusive Communities: The emotional labour involved and the risks Becky took to create welcoming spaces.
- Diversity and Hustle Culture: Red flags to watch out for in communities.
- Giving and Receiving: Misconceptions about altruism and the importance of teaching consent early on.
Don't miss this insightful episode on creating thriving communities! Subscribe, rate, and review the Scenic Route on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favourite platform.
Connect with Becky Mollenkamp
Website
Instagram
Join her substack
Listen to her podcast, Feminist Founders
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Today on Scenic Route podcast podcast, Molly Beckenkamp unravels the complexities of transactional relationships, the struggle to ask for help and the transformative power of being a better receiver in a community. So, basically, this episode is all about community, about us in community, about our relationship to and in communities, and how we can build better communities to ultimately do better. So grab a seat, join us at the table. You're welcome.
Jennifer Walter:Becky Mollenkamp she, her is an accountability coach for smart, high-achieving business owners. She helps them go after their goals without burning out or losing sight of their values. Becky is also an intersectional feminist and conducts her coaching through dadlands, which means acknowledging lived experiences and never using blame or shame as tools. Learn more about Becky at beckymollentamp. com beckymollentampcom. Okay, Becky becky, welcome to the Scenic Route podcast.
Becky Mollenkamp:Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to chat.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, me too. I mean, we're going to talk today about community and I thought who better than the founder of the like of the feminist founders feminist collective? So thank you. Oh, I'm excited we're gonna sprinkle in some feminism for you free of charge. So yeah, we better.
Jennifer Walter:I don't know that I can talk about anything without bringing that into it, so yes, well, I, I suppose, especially when we talk about community and our relationship with others, and it feels like it is a intrinsically female topic as well, because I personally feel we have been robbed of community and I know this is not just for women or people who identify as women but we have been robbed of community. So, before we get into that and system critique, what does community mean to you personally, becky, and how has it shaped your life?
Becky Mollenkamp:It's so funny because I grew up really lacking community. I didn't have strong familial bonds as a kid Like our family. There was a brief time before my parents' divorce where I sort of remember this feeling of like having a community around me, but for the bulk of my life I didn't really feel that. It felt like it was sort of my very small immediate family my mom, my brother and I kind of against the world immediate family, my mom, my brother and I kind of against the world, and it just we moved a lot. I never really had that established sort of feeling of my own village right.
Becky Mollenkamp:I felt very isolated and I don't know like there's chicken and the egg. I don't know if I became an introvert because of that or if I was introverted anyway and then that just sort of felt easier and better. But I'm very introverted, I'm very inside of myself and so it's easy for me to get very sort of self centered and to be the center of my own universe and then have that mean I don't have a lot of community. So for a lot of my life I never really felt any sort of strong pull to have community. But things really started to shift probably around the time I had my child and I think and I had a child late in life.
Jennifer Walter:I was waiting for that.
Becky Mollenkamp:Of course it's always a child, right? Oh God it is. And I was late in life having a child. I had him at 40. And so that's a long life of not really having these strong community bonds. I never really had a lot of friends, definitely didn't have a lot of lifelong friends, but when I had him it was like, you know, everything changes when you become a parent and it's like really, really it's the world's hardest job and try right, and then doing that without a village, without a community is is really hard.
Becky Mollenkamp:And so that's when I think, a lot of women for me it happened later in life, but I think for a lot of women who maybe do that in their 20s that is a place where we start to look for and have a new understanding of what community means to us, because I think before that often for people community is sort of by opportunity. It's just like, oh, you're there and I'm here and we'll hang out. Or it's like these bonds that we've had for so long that they're almost more like family, for so long that they're almost more like family and it's less usually of like actively seeking out community to serve a need in your life. And that's what I think parenthood often does for a lot of women. It's like I need to find people who understand what I'm going through, otherwise I go crazy.
Becky Mollenkamp:Right and I don't know what to do and I feel lost and so much self-judgment and the world around you feels like it's judging you I mean, mothers are so judged and then we do it to ourselves and if we don't have other people to say like no, yeah, this does suck, yeah, this is really hard, you're not alone for sometimes thinking like I don't know if I can do this right, like because it's the stuff we don't feel like we're allowed to say. And you look on social media and everyone loves their children 24 hours a day and they're just.
Becky Mollenkamp:They're also adorable, they make no messes that they're instagrammable and you're like they're never fighting you, they're never crying, they're just like everything's happy and it's like no. So community to me is there's like those two types of community. I think it's the community that we have sort of de facto, like our families or lifelong friends, these people who are there for a lifetime that feel almost less like a choice and just like this is just part of my world.
Becky Mollenkamp:I didn't necessarily choose my family, or I didn't necessarily even choose these friends because I've been with them. They've been friends since we were children, but they're there and they're an important part of my life. And then I feel like community is this other group of people which is the people that we actively seek out to make us feel less alone, to help us through certain things. So that started for me with being a mom, but then quickly I started to realize like I need this for being a business owner too. I need other people who get how hard this is and all the challenges I'm going through, and then now what it means to have a child as I try to run a business right. So we start, I think, actively seeking out people who can help us feel less alone in the things that we are going through. And then eventually we start to like the farther down that journey. You start to realize how reciprocal community is. Like.
Jennifer Walter:I think often we seek out community to fill something in us, yeah, but I think quickly you start to realize, like how beautiful it is when you begin to start giving too, and that beautiful reciprocity makes it very wholesome yeah so I think we touched on a lot of like, almost like pre-requirements for communities, right, like there has to be a sort of a giving and a taking, otherwise, yeah, you're just exploiting people exactly well then, we can get into feminism, we can get into feminism about extraction yes and a taking Otherwise. Yeah, you're just exploiting people Exactly.
Becky Mollenkamp:Well, now we can get into feminism, we can get into feminism, about extraction yes, right, like we're like five minutes in, we've made it, you've done it already, because it's exactly right If there's not reciprocity. And I think too often people get into community and I get it like the instinct is how is this going to help me?
Jennifer Walter:How can I get something that's going to help me? Yes, and that get it? Like the instinct is how is this going to help me? How can I get something that's going to help me? Yes, that's okay. That's okay. Yes, exactly, it's normal.
Becky Mollenkamp:But eventually, and hopefully not too long, we start to understand it's not actually community if it's a one-way street, right, that's not what community is. That's just a world revolving around me that's very self-centered, it's very individualistic and it's also not surprising, because it's very capitalistic, and all of us that grow up in capitalism we learn to extract. We are very much like taught to find out what's in it for you, what can you get out of this? What are they going to give you? How can you get the most from this? We start to learn to take, take, take. And it's funny, I mean. I think for women it can be a little different, because often women are the ones that are conditioned a little more to be givers.
Jennifer Walter:Yes, the caretakers yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp:And so sometimes we'll get into community and we're giving too much. I've also discovered that, right, and yourself, yeah Well, giving too much of your time, giving too much of your help, giving too much of your product, your energy, whatever it is, and not learning that it should be reciprocal the other way, but that's still extractive. You've just are now extracting from yourself. You're learning that you are the product instead of the community, or the other way around, where we learn that the community is the product that we should be taking. But it's either way, whether you're the one who's giving too much and not getting enough, or you're taking too much and not giving enough.
Becky Mollenkamp:That is an extractive model that is rooted and grounded in what capitalism trains us to believe systems should look like. And so the intersectional, feminist approach to community is one that is not extractive. It has to be reciprocal and it doesn't have to be equally reciprocal. Right, there are going to be seasons where one person is taking more and one is giving more, but over the course of time, everyone should be getting their needs met. Or it's not community and one's giving more, but over the course of time, everyone should be getting their needs met, or that's not. It's not community.
Jennifer Walter:If that's not happening, yeah, I mean it's the same with like that, oh, 50, 50 approach, balance to like partnership and parenthood. It's not 50, 50 every fucking day, but within the course of a certain amount of time you should feel like, yeah, we're equals.
Becky Mollenkamp:Well, exactly, or that we, it's that equity version instead of equal right.
Jennifer Walter:That's true. Yeah, that's true. That's true, it's actually the equity.
Becky Mollenkamp:Right that we're all having our needs met. It may be that in our, in my family, I never mow the lawn. My husband mows the lawn a hundred percent of the times. Equality would look like I mow it 50% of the time and he mows it 50% of the time.
Jennifer Walter:That's very true.
Becky Mollenkamp:He mows 100% of the time. But also there are many things I do 100% of the time that he does 0% of the time and when you look at it then it's like, oh, now we're getting to that place of equity, we're looking for each other or with each other, and that, to me, is like that idea of community and again, like you said, it's not this idea of 50-50 and perfect equality and balance. All of that stuff is such crap because it's just not realistic To me. It's really grounded in that white supremacist idea of the one right way or the black and white, this and that sort of thinking.
Becky Mollenkamp:Like everything has to be be. It's that perfectionism that we are conditioned into in white supremacy, and things don't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be perfectly exact. If we're sitting there cutting up the pieces of pie and looking to say, did I get the exact same amount as you got? That doesn't factor in, like how much pie have you already eaten? That?
Jennifer Walter:day. I mean, then we're back to equality, right Like? Okay, that's everyone benefits from the same supports, but we're actually looking at, okay, what support do you need? And that looks different for everyone.
Becky Mollenkamp:Exactly, and it looks different on any given day. Like you were saying, like today, I might need more rest.
Becky Mollenkamp:I heard Brene Brown who, whatever, there's issues around Brene Brown, but also like there are a lot of smart things I mean seriously, and I saw an interview with her talking about this 50-50 idea, and she was saying like again, it's each day the key to a successful relationship, and this is these I'm talking personal, like spouse relation kind of relationships, but this applies to everything.
Becky Mollenkamp:We need to think about these more globally, in our business relationships as well, which is, instead of 50-50,. It's like checking in all the time to say where are you at, what is your capacity? If you're saying I've only got 20 to give today, then asking the other person can you manage the other 80? And if you can't, then it's figuring out then what do we do together? If you've only got 30 and I've only got 20, we're at 50, then we need to work together to figure out how do we get the other 50% met, or how can we make it work with 50? Right, exactly. And some of that, though, is where having community is so important, because when we are only two people and we both wake up and we've only got 20, that day we had 60% we need to get met, and that's where we need to go back to having more community.
Becky Mollenkamp:We have gotten so isolated and individualistic that we don't have support. And we try to do that in our businesses too, where we're like, well, I have to give a hundred all the time, but that is not sustainable, it is not regenerative, it's not something that we can build on. And so that is where, to me, like when we're looking at community in the business sense, having community to help support on those times when you say I've only got 30, who can help me with the other 70 I need here to get through this project? What does that look like? And sometimes that means I have 110 I could give. Today, who's needing a little extra? I've got extra.
Jennifer Walter:I can give. That's beautiful, yeah. So, going back I want to go back to this later, I think like circling back so we said, okay, we have one of the requirements for community, for true community as we understand it, is equity. Everyone should get the support they need, um and we said it before for a sense of trust and openness to share how you're really doing right. We especially. I remember when I was struggling with postpartum depression, I was desperate for someone telling me yes, I also wanted to like throw my kid out the window exactly, yes.
Becky Mollenkamp:Yes, these are not things that we talk about. We have to. That's vulnerability, yeah, and it is, I mean, even that's another thing where it's kind of like chicken and egg to some degree, where how do you get to the place of feeling vulnerable, feeling the safety and the trust to be vulnerable? And sometimes the thing that builds that safety and trust is being vulnerable, right.
Jennifer Walter:Very often yes.
Becky Mollenkamp:So sometimes you have to be willing to step off the edge and say I don't know that I fully feel the safety in this space yet, but I'm going to get vulnerable. And we also have to fully recognize all sorts of issues around privilege and oppression, to say there's a difference too on that stepping off the edge. For some of us that edge is much smaller than for others, based on our privilege, and so I do think it's incumbent upon those with the most privilege in any community to be willing to take the greater risks, because those risks what feel like greater risks are actually still smaller risks for us than they would be for somebody who holds more marginalized identities. And so I think it's really important, important, so we're really getting into the feminist stuff now that I just oh, hey, hell.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, I mean like we're one, like I mean we're smack and like system critique, and this is where I'm going next as well. Right, like you said it beautifully okay, we, we want equity. We like, today I have more to give and I'm happy to give more and tomorrow, like, maybe you have more to give. But although we're so connected these days as we've never been before, we're so hyper individualized. We're. Often we do not even find the communities where we could have say like I have, like, where I was like energy spillover could go into. So it just goes. We will always find something to do. We're conditioned as women. We'll always find something to fix. But like, how do we go about finding community? It can be hard.
Becky Mollenkamp:It's so hard and I wish I had a great answer because ultimately, I usually end up having to create the communities I want to see exist in the world, because I struggle to find them yeah and so if you're the same kind of person and like the same kind of community, the way I'm talking about community, reach out, because I do have communities that I can welcome people into because I've had to create them, I mean. Mean, I think what I have found for myself is the more that I purposely, intentionally cultivate my own network, and I don't mean that in the gross, transactional, extractive sense of like my network of people who can sell to.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, I'm going to an Ivy League and get friends with all the people there because their parents are someone.
Becky Mollenkamp:Right, who can I hop on the phone with and hopefully they'll buy my shit, right? No, I'm saying the more that I get myself into spaces or call in purposely, try to find and meet people who are super values aligned which, by the way, means a lot of times I'm meeting people who aren't. So there's a lot of like you gotta go through 12 calls to find the three that are actually truly values aligned. But the more that I do that, the more that I put in the effort and I'm intentional. I'm very vocal about what matters to me and I'm seeking out. I'm not just waiting. It's not the build that they'll come. I'm not just waiting for people to find me. I'm going out and I'm taking those risks to say you seem cool on social media.
Jennifer Walter:Let me DM you. You show up vulnerable and be like you know I created this thing.
Becky Mollenkamp:Or even before creating the thing, even just like yeah, I have this idea At the very beginning, just of like I just need more cool, I need more people who are values aligned in my world, and I spent a lot of time doing that before I even got to the place of building anything Like.
Becky Mollenkamp:I reached out to you once I had built something you in particular like and again it was like you seem cool, we seem to have the same values. Let's have a call and make sure you are very cool and I'm glad that we met. And it doesn't happen, if we don't take that risk of you saying hey, I'm here, and me saying like, yeah, so so am I, let's talk. And then, once I've done some of that, like building up this community, this network of people that I think are cool, all these other individual people then somebody has to be the one to say let me shepherd us all together, right, like, I'm gonna gather up someone has to do emotional labor to kind of like bring it, bring it together and to collect more than just connect the dots right, because I've done a lot of connecting of people, individuals, same, and I have, like all these cool individuals that I've met, yeah and I'm like, oh, you should work with that person, they're perfect.
Jennifer Walter:And then off you go but it's still not.
Becky Mollenkamp:I mean, it's still that is community, but it's a much looser weave of community and I want a tighter. I like I'm at this place in my life where I want to have tighter knit communities. I don't want this just to be a bunch of different individuals who are kind of loosely connected through me but we aren't actually being together, we're not spending time together, we're not seeing each other on a regular basis, we're not getting to know each other at those deeper levels. Like that to me is the more you start to do that, the tighter that knit gets inside of that community. So, instead of being this like real loose, like crochet, where there's big gaps between all the people, it's like no, this is starting to get tighter and tighter to where it's like this, like a really tight knit, and that's my goal.
Becky Mollenkamp:And it's hard, because I tried to fit myself into existing communities again and again and again before I was like I just can't find it. I can't find the spaces that feel right and that can be really discouraging. And then you can start to think why bother? And it doesn't exist or whatever, and not everyone is going to be the person who wants to be the builder and I get that because it is hard, it is a lot of work, it is a lot of emotional labor. It's a lot of work. It is a lot of emotional labor, it's a lot of physical labor. It can sometimes be monetary demands on it. There's a lot to it.
Becky Mollenkamp:Sometimes it just has to be that person who's willing to take the risk, because every time I've tried to cultivate a community or I have cultivated a community whether it was a mastermind or something like this collective or a membership that I charge for every time when I put out the call and say I'm doing this thing, here's the kind of people I want in it, this is what it's going to do I've had people say, yes, me, please. I've been wanting that and I couldn't find it, because most people aren't willing to do the work, to put it together I don't want to say aren't willing. That sounded judgmental. Most people don't have the capacity to do the building of it and so if you can and will, if you are the one who's willing to take that risk, to take on the labor, I promise you almost always you're going to find people who are eager to join because they can't find it either, and we're all just sitting there waiting in our own little silos like saying I hope someone finds me.
Becky Mollenkamp:Is anyone else out there, Right we're all waiting for it.
Jennifer Walter:We're sending.
Becky Mollenkamp:Morse codes and be like Right, but it's just too far away. Nobody's hearing that message because we're just sort of shouting into the abyss, and so you have to be that person willing to, you know, reach out and ask. I wish there was a better answer of how to find the communities, but I haven't been able to. I don't have a better answer yeah I can tell you how to find communities that aren't a good fit oh yeah, what are the red flags?
Becky Mollenkamp:well, for me. I mean, it depends on what you. I think everyone you're looking for is personal red flags, right?
Jennifer Walter:but I mean, we're, if you're, if you're still listening to this podcast, it's a chance, and we have the same red flags when it comes to community right values.
Becky Mollenkamp:Well, for me, a big one is if I walk into the room and everyone looks like me. That is always a red flag for me and and also I want to fully acknowledge like, as a white person with a lot of privilege, I also know how challenging it is to create communities that actually are safe for people of the global majority or for people who are LGBTQ, and I'm in the LGBTQ family. I'm not of the majority, but I also I just know how challenging it can be if you don't have share those identities. It's hard to create and lead and be able to maintain spaces you have to be willing to fuck it up because, exactly and and those folks have to be willing to risk some harm to themselves.
Becky Mollenkamp:Right, because when I create those spaces, I will stupid white people and we will fuck it up, and even smart white people, not to be defensive.
Jennifer Walter:But just to say that it's not just stupid white people no, no, I mean god. I mean I'm including me and sometimes into the stupid white people because they're like this is where I'm like.
Becky Mollenkamp:Oh, I've never actually thought of that how privileged of me because we have, like we will be. It's a lifelong journey to unlearn this, the oppressive stuff that we have baked into us.
Jennifer Walter:What kind of, doesn't it to us?
Becky Mollenkamp:Even if you've done so much of the work, you can't get away from the fact that you are still, ultimately, somebody who has a great deal of privilege and that is going to be carried into a space. So they have to be willing to do that harm and and the folks who are on the other end of that have to be willing to receive some amount of harm, which is happening all the time, every day, for those folks and they have to choose which spaces feel like they will be minimizing that harm. What the benefit is, is it worth that, like they're doing, they're have and I think it's important for those of us with privilege to be aware of this that are that folks who don't have, who have less privilege, who have more oppression that they're.
Becky Mollenkamp:They're constantly doing these gymnastics and what is the like. This cost, is the space worth it? But it's one of my red flies when I walk in and everyone looks like me um I. For me, a big red flag is like girl bossy stuff, and by that I mean like I'm here to build an empire. Anytime anyone tells me they're building an empire, that's a big red flag for me. Me, anybody who is like talking about seven figures or who's still using any of that kind of figures language huge red flag for me.
Becky Mollenkamp:You know, I think if there isn't a clear demand for rest, that rest is like a right and important right, any hustle, culture, stuff. So those kinds of things are all real red flags for me. If I look at their website and I can't find anything about their values anywhere, that's a red flag, like even before I get into a space. If I'm looking just at something about a community and there's nothing about their value system, that's scary to me because it means they haven't. I think it looks like they haven't thought through what their values are, and if you're not agreeing to a shared set of values, then why are we here?
Becky Mollenkamp:That, to me, is where it starts to get very transactional, very extractive, because usually, if there's not a set of values that are explicit and clear about some of the things I'm talking about, it's going to be a pretty traditional space that is like, hey, we're all here to sell to each other and what can I take, what will you give me?
Becky Mollenkamp:Like I just ultimately I'm here to look for customers and I get that like as a business owner, I get that inclination because we're all like trying to make more money, we're all trying to survive, but those spaces you have to remember, everyone else there is also just trying to get customers. So that's not a space where people are going to care about you, care about your business or, ultimately, probably even buy from you, right? Like you're there to get them to buy from you, but they're all just looking to get people to buy from them, and so everyone is just shouting I have something for sale, I have something for sale, and no one's listening Feels very MLME, yeah. So those are like. Those are some of the big red flags for me that I watch.
Becky Mollenkamp:And, like Google sadly thinks feminist and female or feminist and woman are synonyms, and they are not. So I have searched for feminist communities and it will just bring you all of these woman focused communities and there are just as many women perpetuating all these same harms as there are men. We know that in America, because it's the white women who got Trump in office last time Like we know that white women are perpetuating the same harms, and so that is a challenge, because it's like when you talk about how you find the communities, you know most people are going to go right to Google searching for some sort of community and you're left at like, I don't know. There's all these. There are so many women's spaces and so few of them that are doing something that's really like radical and different and rethinking what community means. Because, at least for the women I know who give a shit, we don't want more men's spaces.
Becky Mollenkamp:I don't like what most of these women's spaces I've been in are just women. It's men's spaces with women in them. You know what I mean? They're just these same traditional yeah, they're gross spaces but with women instead of men yeah, they're not.
Jennifer Walter:There's nothing revolutionary about the ideas that are circulating in the spaces. But again, like quick side note, if you've ever joined a community like either a free or paid in the sense of a mastermind or a course and you're like, ugh, the community in there is like not what I expected I mean, I personally I've done that, where I signed up for a mastermind and I felt like this is such an amazing community and, yes, the community, the people in there to some extent were, but the leader she was, she had the right words, but it stopped there. So, yeah, don't feel ashamed or embarrassed that you signed up for something and then realized, oh no, it's not it, because some people just like do it intentionally.
Becky Mollenkamp:I've spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on communities in recent years alone trying to find spaces. So and I don't blame myself, because a lot of them either talked good talk and then didn't walk the walk or didn't really talk the talk, but I didn't know where else to go when you're desperate and you can't find it.
Jennifer Walter:What are you going to do? Throwing spaghetti at a wall and yes, let's go. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp:And I will say that even in the worst communities, like you said, I have found individuals inside of those communities that I've pulled along right In that loose knit network I was building over the years, and so sometimes those wrong spaces can still help you find right people who were there for the same reason as you, because they can't find it. So if you start to have these conversations inside of communities that you're in about, like what matters to you, what do you want from a community? Are you getting it here? Because I'm feeling a little off, I'm telling you you will find other people who are like yeah, I thought this was going to be something different. Like what you're talking about is what I want too, and slowly you start to bring those people together and again you can start to cultivate your own space that fits the needs that you're looking for.
Jennifer Walter:But again that it goes back to someone has to be willing to put in the labor. And that interesting it brings me to my partner and I. We, we've been together for forever, like literally, um, what is it 20? We go on 24 years. Um, I know it's insane and people sometimes ask me or before the early asking like what's your secret? Like tell me what's your secret.
Jennifer Walter:I'm like I'm really not a relationship expert by any means, but what I can say and this goes for the community too, because you've highlighted it there was always someone of us willing to put in the work. If we would have said at the same time, nope, not going to invest any sort of labor into this, it would have ended then and there. But it was always someone who had the capacity to be like no, let's carry on with this thing. And I think that's really the key when it also comes to community. Right, there is you have to find a way, if you want to build community, to put on the labor, which I don't know if this happened to you, but when you had your kid, how many of your relationships changed or ended?
Becky Mollenkamp:yeah, and you know, it makes me think that, like we have their friendships or people in our lives for a reason, and those for a season, and all that kind of stuff, but again, like I was fairly isolated by the time before I had my child, like it's my partner, my mom, me, a few friends, and those relationships may have sustained but they've evolved as they have to, because my friends who don't have kids, they live a very different life than I do, and so.
Becky Mollenkamp:But you know, it's funny. I think like there there's something about having a kid too that makes you more efficient. You start to learn how to be much more efficient with your time and get more shit done because, like you, you start learning when they're little. Like I have this much time before that kid's going to wake up again, I got to get this and this and this and this done Right. So you learn how to be much more efficient. You also learn as a business owner. Like I have to work during these hours, like there's no more, I'll just get to it when I want to. Like you don't have that kind of freedom. So I think you start to learn how to be much more efficient.
Jennifer Walter:I'm not saying that only moms can create communities oh no, there can be lots of instances where dad I mean for me it shortly, it surely was well, and I don't mean I mean I think people who don't have kids can create communities.
Becky Mollenkamp:But I will say I do think that parents, especially the primary caregiver parent, which is often mom, are uniquely primed to be really great at building community because of that labor piece, because we know how to be so efficient in getting shit done to get a community going. At least that was my experience that I was able to like in the past. I think it would have taken me much longer to build communities because I would have wanted everything to be perfect. I would have like spent, I would have been like I'll get to that piece when I want and that piece when I want, like now it's like no, I just need to do the bare minimum to make it work and get it out, and I have to do it during this amount of time. So it's going to get done, and so I think that with a labor piece but I will say also there's nothing wrong with in fact it's really good to ask for help and I know it can be hard, because if you're building a community, you don't yet have the community to lean on for help.
Becky Mollenkamp:But those that loose knit group of people that you've been starting to cultivate over time, that now you're trying to tighten the knit amongst us like, start to ask them for support too. You don't have to do everything alone, like I think that is. We're so programmed to be so individualistic that even when we start to go about building a community, which is supposed to be the antidote to that, we still go into it very individualistic and thinking I have to do it all.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, this is yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp:And we need to ask for support and ask for help. That's like capitalism, exactly. You don't like yeah, somebody does have to take the lead, yes, somebody has to expend probably more labor than other people, but that doesn't mean you have to do it all and it doesn't have to be a hundred percent on. You ask for help along the way and doing this. That's why I like, I like to approach things Even I really love the term collective more than community, even because, even though they really are the same thing, but this collective experience, like calling it a collective and knowing like we're all in this, we're all invested in it, maybe not again at equal levels, because equity doesn't demand that everything has to be equal, but recognizing that each member will give what they can.
Jennifer Walter:It's more about justice and fairness.
Becky Mollenkamp:Yes, exactly Mathematical percentage Right, that equity piece of like understanding that your members who are the most marginalized may not, not only maybe can't give as much, but shouldn't give as much. If you have more privilege, then you probably should be giving more in building this thing and sustaining it. But expecting everyone to show up to do something to help how they can is important, and I think we have to learn to be able to ask for that is important, and I think we have to learn to be able to ask for that. And that can be hard because for many of us, asking for help feels like weakness, that's sort of that masculine energy that we've all been conditioned into, and for some of us, asking for help feels like failure in that feminine energy of I'm supposed to be able to do it all or I should be giving so much and it feels bad.
Becky Mollenkamp:And asking for help feels like no, I don't ask, I give. I'm not a taker, I'm a giver, and we have to learn that again. If you're giving in a way that is truly because you altruistic there's the word I wanted then taking is part of that, because if you're giving in a way that's altruistic, then you have to allow that you have to be able to receive as well. Right, because?
Jennifer Walter:otherwise it's not truly altruistic at all.
Becky Mollenkamp:No, because when you're giving expecting no one to give back to you, it's usually not altruistic. You're giving because you want people to see you in a certain way. You want to be seen as some sort of martyr.
Jennifer Walter:You want to get to see yourself the way you want to.
Becky Mollenkamp:Yes, you get to feel that way, and the refusing of the receiving clearly states that this is not about a mutual relationship. It is about you. Right, it's still a deeply individualistic thing. It's funny because we will convince ourselves no, I give and I give and I give. I'm so altruistic, I don't, I'm doing this selflessly. It's still a deeply individualistic thing. It's funny because we will convince ourselves no, I give and I give and I give. I'm so altruistic, I don't, I'm doing this selflessly. It's not about oh, have you met my mom? Do we have the same mom?
Jennifer Walter:Are we twins? Well, I mean well yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp:Everybody who has a boomer mom is like Uh-huh, those boomer moms. God love them and we do, but they are the world's best martyrs, right? They have decided like I give and I give and I ask nothing in return, they capitalize on it, but do they give, do they ask for nothing in return? Because I promise you they do.
Jennifer Walter:What they really want is yes, mine had a very steep price until I said I'm not going to pay the bill.
Becky Mollenkamp:Been there been there and, mom, if you're listening, I love you, but we've talked. You are a bit of a martyr and it is this whole like they're not giving selflessly, they're giving with the expectation that you're going to acknowledge, that You're going to heap on praise.
Jennifer Walter:You're going to see them a certain way. We're back to transactional relationships, right?
Becky Mollenkamp:Exactly, exactly. And I just think it's so important for us to hear because, especially as women, we are so conditioned into that, to believing that the giving endlessly of ourselves is altruistic and selfless and this most beautiful thing. But the truth is it is absolutely still grounded in that capitalist way of showing up in the world, this transactional way where, in fact, giving and then allowing yourself to receive, even asking, but even if you don't ask, was most of the time when you give, people will say what can I do for you, or can I do this, or let me offer you this? And those people who are still really grounded and rooted in this like transactional no, it's just about me thing, they're the ones will be like no, no, no, no, no, right you?
Jennifer Walter:know where. I can also see that I also sometimes do this experiment where I'm gonna go to someone I'm not, who doesn't know me very well, I'm like and I like I. Generally, when I see something I like, they'll go like I really love your top. It looks fucking gorgeous on you right and nine out of nine out of ten. You good. My kids yelling at me.
Becky Mollenkamp:Can I hold on one second? But I want you to finish your thoughts, so finish your thought. Nine out of ten, nine out of 10, you good, my kids yelling at me. Can I hold on one second? But I want you to finish your thoughts, so finish your thought nine out of ten.
Jennifer Walter:Nine out of ten.
Becky Mollenkamp:They're like oh, thank you, I like your top two instead of just saying thank you oh yes, we are really good at that right of not being able to say thanks, yeah, and just leave it at that. Or we have to say like, oh, this old, like I got this for two dollars, or I got this on sale, or whatever.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, it was very cheap. It's very old. You're already putting yourself down.
Becky Mollenkamp:Right, we can't receive. We can't receive and that is not selfless, I promise you. So if you still believe it is, here's your permission to know it's not and that actually learning to receive is part of what creates relationship. Relationship and relationship is so important for true community. So it's not just transactional, yeah.
Jennifer Walter:We've heard a lot about how we can build better communities or how we can be better or how we can do better in communities when we're part of them, and we've touched on a really important point, because most of us don't need to learn how to give more, because we already give a lot, if we want or not, or it has been taken from us or it's been expected from us. But we touched on a really interesting point just now how can we learn to be a better?
Becky Mollenkamp:receiver. It's so hard, isn't it? But first, I think I feel like with any personal development sort of change that we're doing, step one is always awareness, because I think so many people convince themselves that they're not just giving or that giving is just so, again going back to this idea that it's just altruistic or selfless. I think the important thing is to start to bring awareness to how much you're giving versus how much you're receiving, and you can do that by literally tracking it day in and day out. Make two columns on a piece of paper gave, received and all day long notice where are you giving? Little ways, big ways? I just had to go help my kid with something that was a give.
Becky Mollenkamp:Now, what have I received today? Right, If I received somebody opening the door for me, that's still receiving. Right, I allowed someone to do that for me. So think about the ways that you have received. I asked for a second, for you to give me a second to go help with my kid. Right, that was receiving. I allowed myself to receive that from you, you asked and you let yourself receive Right.
Becky Mollenkamp:So tracking some of that, because I think we aren't even aware of the gross imbalance in that for ourselves and again, it's not like it has to be even, but we aren't even aware of how much. Many of us aren't aware of how much we're giving and how little we are asking and receiving.
Becky Mollenkamp:Sorry, I should say I think that's the first piece is the awareness piece and then, because we can't change what we can't see, and then I think the second piece is to also pay some attention, to bring some awareness to the gives themselves and ask yourself what am I, what is the unspoken expectation that I have in this moment? Is there one? And get real honest with yourself, which that's challenging. But if we can begin to do that, we can start to realize maybe all this giving I've been doing that made me feel so altruistic, so selfless, so wonderful, isn't as selfless as I thought it was, and that doesn't have to be bad, but it's noticing it, so that you can begin to say oh God, we don't want to label good and bad.
Becky Mollenkamp:Right, but it's just watching, because it will help you begin again to see some of that imbalance in your life, of how much you felt like you were being selfless and how actually maybe you haven't been. And that what does it look like? Because it's actually much harder and actually more selfless meaning having to strip down the ego to say can you help me? That actually is far more selfless and people don't see it that way, but it's true and it's because it requires far more vulnerability. It requires far more releasing of the ego, of who you believe yourself to be, to say I need help or to say thank you for this. I will allow you to give me whatever this thing is.
Jennifer Walter:I will allow you to make me out, or.
Becky Mollenkamp:I will receive this thing. So I think those are the biggest things to me is that awareness piece, because we can't change what we can't see. And once we start to see how imbalanced things are and then also how maybe off our belief of self and our belief of our giving is, when we start to see it, we can't unsee it, and then we begin to say this isn't actually how I want to show up, this isn't actually aligned with my values. And that allows you to then begin to start saying, okay, what changes do I need to make here? And dip your toes in the waters.
Becky Mollenkamp:Just the little things, like you mentioned. The next time someone pays you a compliment, say thank you, just receive the compliment, no caveats, no like downplaying, no receipt, no returning either. Can you just receive without an expectation of having to then give. So, learning how, like in the small moments, can I start to do that and see what it feels like? Because I think, sitting with, what are the feelings that come up? Because it will be uncomfortable. If you're not somebody who's been a receiver, it will be uncomfortable starting to sit with it sitting with.
Becky Mollenkamp:why is this so uncomfortable? What is this bringing up? For me, it could be some of the stuff we learned from mom, it could be some other relationship, but then that becomes really good stuff to do some journaling around, reflecting on on to start making those bigger changes 100%.
Jennifer Walter:And I only have two things to add. One, it's kind of like a disclaimer. We've talked a lot about and I truly believe that most of us have an issue with doing too much. But again, it's only ever a problem. If you think it is a problem, if you think the balance is off and you think that's a problem, then you go do something. Please do not listen to us if we say you have a problem. I would I never say that, neither would I. But just disclaimer. And the other thing is I always listen closely to how people talk and the language they use, and especially when it comes to like needing something, right, it's I.
Jennifer Walter:For example, with my kid. I'm never asking him do you need help? I always ask him would you like me to help you? Because I feel that's such a chef. Because, yes, you can. Sometimes you can do shit on your own. That doesn't mean you have to, so no need, but maybe a slight desire or wish or whatever to get support well, you know, it's funny because that brings up another thing that I think is really important.
Becky Mollenkamp:If for a community to be feminist, and that's consent, I think consent has to be a big part of it, which, in so many of those traditional communities, how often are you being sold to without your consent, without anyone ever even asking you like, hey, can I, can I drop into your DM about this?
Jennifer Walter:thing. Can I just open a store for you? Like no, I can do it myself, Do you want?
Becky Mollenkamp:to hear about this thing, right, and I mean, it starts with kids. We aren't teaching kids consent and those little ways of like would it be OK if I helped with this, instead of here let me do this for you, or what do you want? And then we start to get really like. I think that can start to shut some of us down from giving and most especially from the receiving piece, because how many of us have received without consent over our lives, in various ways, most certainly ways that affect our bodies, you know, without being too explicit and I don't have to do a bunch of trigger warnings, but there, but also just like our moms doing things for us that we never asked for, and then it's like this expectation that we were supposed to now be in debt to them in some way, right Right.
Becky Mollenkamp:And we're not grateful, and so that also, like I just think it's important to honor that in that without consent, it doesn't feel good, and so for a lot of us, learning how to receive is also learning like having to learn about consent about learning to point.
Becky Mollenkamp:Yeah, and that's challenging.
Becky Mollenkamp:And so, again, as you begin to do some of these things and allow yourself to receive, start to notice that too, because some of what might not feel good about receiving is that it's not always consensual, it has not been, it's been given, thrust upon you and then it starts to feel like there's this expectation or, even if it isn't, some of these old beliefs about the expectations that are attached to things.
Becky Mollenkamp:We start to think, oh, if, oh, if I allow someone to do something for me, there's gonna be this expectation attached to it. Because that has happened to us so many times and we have to start to learn to heal some of those old wounds so that we can start to receive and understand that giving does not have to come with a like you mentioned earlier, the price tag, that you don't have to pay that price tag. But that can be hard. And also, by the way, sometimes we believe that because we have been so conditioned into it that we are doing it, we are giving with an unstated expectation, with a price tag attached to it that the other person doesn't even know about.
Jennifer Walter:I catch myself every now and then like, oh no, no bitch, what are you doing?
Becky Mollenkamp:Right, Well, like even with our kids, I'm doing this thing with the expectation, the hope that he's going to come back and like, tell me he loves me or give me a hug, or whatever. Right, Shut up Again, not altruistic, but we feel like, oh, but I'm such a giver. But then it's like how many of the times that we're giving Maybe that's that thing to also notice in your journaling which is like when you're giving how many times is it coming with an unstated price tag?
Becky Mollenkamp:that because, if we're doing it, we're obviously going to believe people are doing it to us. So the more we can learn to start giving without the price tag, then we can start to believe that others might give without a price tag oh, that's such a great, like great thought to ponder upon.
Jennifer Walter:And journal, if that's your jam for sure, oh, I, I feel like I also have to journal. I'm not a journal. I speak voice messages and then never listen to them, but once I sent them, recorded them and released them to the universe, I'm good. Um, so I'm extending. Becky, do you would you like to share where people can find you, can find your amazing community? If they're like they're still bad chance, you want to be in it. Where can people find you?
Becky Mollenkamp:Yeah, you can find me at beckymollenkampcom. So I know it's an unusual spelling, but the good news is, if you just try to search Becky Mollenkamp in Google, however you spell it, you'll probably find me. Google's kind of figured out all the misspellings too, so that's great. I'm sure you'll link to it. And I have just launched a new community called Sweet Success Society. Oh see, I need to rethink the name because it's hard for me to even say Sweet Success Society. I know it's a challenge, it's a tongue twister.
Becky Mollenkamp:I mean I like the S-S-S's things, but I like, I love alliteration, but then sometimes when you go to actually say it, it looks pretty spelled out, but when you say it you're like, oh, that's tough on the tongue, sweet success society. But it's for business owners who are challenging business norms, people who've been established in business for a few years, so not just those like newbies and no shame or shade to newbies, because I've been there and I love those communities but I think for many of us who've been in business a little longer, who are maybe-.
Jennifer Walter:The middle-aged business women.
Becky Mollenkamp:Exactly Whether that's literal or figurative. For my case it's both. But you know, when you're in that space it can be harder to find community because so many of the communities have so many of the newbies and then sometimes you feel like that reciprocity can get a bit lopsided. So the goal of this is to find a space for people who are a little more established in their businesses and trying to find community again, that have these value systems that are really rooted in a lot of the things we've been talking about here. So you can find that on my website, you can come check it out and I'd love to have you. And then you know Jennifer and I know each other through a podcast collective that I run called Feminist Podcasters Collective. That is not like a public facing thing, it's by invite.
Becky Mollenkamp:But if you are running a podcast and you're an independent podcaster, you share the kinds of values we've been talking about. You care about equity and social justice. Whatever your topic of podcast is and feel like it might be a good fit for you, you can reach out to me. You can find me on my website again and we can chat, because that's a community we're growing and it's all about help. Like. To me, it's what true community looks like. It is like how do we all get together and help each other, how do we help each of our podcasts grow an audience in? You know, when you're out trying to survive in this world of the big corporate machines, right, how do we say let's band together, let's support each other, let's uplift each other's voices and I'm super excited about that because it's the, of all the community things I've done, it feels the most like true collective because, like my sweet success, society is still me as like a coach led kind of space, which I think those are valuable too, for sure, oh, absolutely, or I wouldn't be doing it.
Becky Mollenkamp:I think it's really important. But this, this podcasters collective, is something very different, and I'm so excited about it because to me, it's like that is really where I'm putting my money, where my mouth is on, like what does it look like to truly run like true community?
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, and I, yeah, 100% watch for it. It's really an amazing space that you've created and you're creating, thank you.
Becky Mollenkamp:Well, you're also helping create that we're all creating.
Jennifer Walter:We're co-creating.
Becky Mollenkamp:Yes.
Jennifer Walter:This is what it's about. Thank you so much for being on the scenic route with me, Becky. It was a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Becky Mollenkamp:This was fun. I love it.
Jennifer Walter:And just like that, we've reached the end of another journey together on the CineGroot podcast. Thank you for spending time with us. Curious for more stories or in search of the resources mentioned in today's episode, visit us at cinegrouppodcastcom for everything you need and if you're ready to embrace your CineGroot, I've got something special for you. Step off the beaten path with my Cineic Route Affirmation Card Deck. It's crafted for those moments when you're seeking courage, yearning to trust your inner voice and eager to carve out a path authentically, unmistakably yours. Pick your Scenic Route Affirmation today and let it support you. Excited about where your journey might lead? I certainly am. Remember, the Scenic Route is not just about the destination, but the experiences, learnings and joy we discover along the way. Thank you for being here and I look forward to seeing you on the scenic route again.
