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Scenic Route
Life's one helluva ride — why not enjoy the view?
The Scenic Route Podcast is your audio chill pill, serving up mindset shifts, laughs, and 'aha!' moments that fuel your soul and your wallet.
We're all about:
- Finding purpose (without the fluff)
- Embracing the soft life (because hustle culture is so last season)
- Real talk (sugar-coating? Not around here)
- Actionable insights (for when you're ready)
- Daring convos (we go there, babes)
- Building resilience (without the toxic positivity)
- Mindfulness for real people (with real problems)
Whether you're feeling lost and emotionally exhausted, hiding from your kids in the bathroom, need a break from the chaos, or want to zen out, we've got you covered.
Join Jennifer Walter, sociologist (MASoc UCC) and pathfinder, on this journey to inner peace — with a generous side of potty humour.
Ready to care less about others' BS and more about your own bliss? Hop on The Scenic Route. Trust us, the view up here is *chef's kiss*.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Your next chill session awaits. You coming?
Scenic Route
Hospitality Secrets: How to Cultivate Genuine Connections with Naomi Rose
Want to become a better host?
Join us for a deep dive into the heart of hospitality with baking maestro and hospitality expert Naomi Rose.
This episode of Scenic Route reveals how the subtle art of hospitality can transform any interaction into a meaningful connection. From the initial greeting to a heartfelt farewell, learn how to infuse every encounter with warmth and personalization, enhancing customer loyalty and easing workload management.
Naomi and I explore the importance of inclusivity in hospitality, sharing insights on accommodating dietary preferences with sensitivity and professionalism. We tackle the challenges of discussing allergens and creating a welcoming environment, equipping you with the tools to handle these situations gracefully.
You'll also hear about the dynamics of leading with empathy and fostering a supportive team environment. Through personal stories and professional tips, we discuss the balance of delegation, trust, and employee empowerment.
Tune in and discover how to create a space where everyone—staff, guests, friends, and family —feels valued and learn how to be a better host.
Why Tune In?
- Mastering Communication: Learn effective strategies to make every guest feel valued from the first hello to the last goodbye.
- Championing Inclusivity: Gain insights on accommodating diverse dietary needs and preferences and ensuring everyone feels included.
- Navigating Challenges: Get tips on handling difficult allergen conversations professionally and with empathy.
- Empowering Leadership: Discover the keys to building dynamic teams and leading heart-first in the hospitality industry.
- Celebrating Connection: Understand the impact of simple gestures of appreciation on customer loyalty and staff morale.
Connect with Naomi Rose
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Work with Naomi
Download her free guide on how to open a café or bakery: 10 steps on how to open a café or bakery for someone looking to turn t
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Desire to find your Scenic Route? Visit jenniferwalter.me — a welcoming space for the emotionally exhausted to rest, discover, and playfully embrace inner peace. Embrace a softer, more fulfilling life today!
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Naomi Rose is a hospitality and food business strategist, baking coach, podcast host and author who helps people achieve baking success. With a deep passion for baking and an unwavering commitment to helping others achieve their goals, naomi has made it her mission to help as many people as possible learn how to bake and build successful baking businesses. In 2018, naomi made the bold decision to leave her 95 and pursue her dream of opening a cafe and bar. Undeterred by the challenges of the pandemic, naomi launched a successful crowdfunding campaign to open her own bakery and, within just three months of opening, naomi's bakery won Britain's Best Loaf Awards. Today, naomi aims to inspire and educate aspiring bakers and food entrepreneurs from all walks of life, with her latest business, baking Boss, sharing her wealth of knowledge and expertise through online workshops, her podcast and book.
Jennifer Walter:Naomi lives in Yorkshire, uk, with her latest business, baking Boss, sharing her wealth of knowledge and expertise through online workshops, her podcast and book. Naomi lives in Yorkshire, uk, with her hobby, mad Spaniel and Crazy Cat. She's also a motorbike rider, fitness, fantastic and classical cellist, performing regularly with orchestras across the region. Naomi, Scenic Route to the Podcast. How are you?
Naomi Rose:I'm really good. How are you?
Jennifer Walter:I'm really excited to talk to you about hospitality and what we, when you're listening in and you're a service provider what we can learn from brick and mortar businesses when it comes to, and especially from the food industry when it comes to, what can we make to make people feel welcome in our space and how this is truly universal right. If you're not running your own business, there is a chance you still uh host uh christmas dinners, or you host meetings at work or whatever school functions you you host. So I think it's a truly, a truly great skill to be a host, um, and to facilitate a space where everyone feels welcome. So I'm excited to talk about this today.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, absolutely.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, okay, what. How do you, when you think of hosting, what are the key elements that do you feel makes a guest feel truly welcome in your space when they first come in?
Naomi Rose:well, I, when I'm hosting, I think it actually starts before then, really, because it's from that first moment of whether you're hosting your own event, or whether someone's going to book with you if you've got a business, or someone's even just coming to you because they're coming on your masterclass, it's that very first touch point they have into you, because the key to anything is communication. It's having that one, that two-way communications with those people that are coming which makes all the difference, because that experience starts at that moment. So it's not when they walk through your doors or come into your house or come online to watch you on zoom. It's before then. It's not when they walk through your doors or come into your house or come online to watch you on Zoom. It's before then. It's well before then, because whatever you're doing in the run up to that, they will make a judgment before they even get to you. So it's a really important thing to think about all of that communication process and how you nurture people process and how you nurture people, and I particularly find and I'll give an example I'm actually organizing my mum's 80th birthday party, which is in September, which I started organizing in January, which is it's a bit like yeah, it's a, it's an event and yeah, it's about the communication.
Naomi Rose:So I'm trying to. It's not. It's not going to be a huge party. There's about 40 people coming, but there's 40 people from coming from Ireland, coming from South, and I'm trying to. It's not. It's not going to be a huge party. There's about 40 people coming, but there's 40 people from coming from Ireland, coming from South, and I'm living in North Yorkshire, so they're coming from all over. But I've already started with kind of the kind of the, the W's, if you like. So what they're going to find why they should be coming, what they're going to eat, where they're going to go, all of those little details, and it's those bits that people want to know. It's the details. And you also, I think, particularly when you're hosting people, will forget until the moment they need to do stuff. So you need to tell them lots of times of what's going to happen, because you know it off the top of your head but yeah, and we probably feel one email is enough and it isn't right.
Naomi Rose:No, and even though that event might be the most important thing going on in my life. So I will know everything. That like if in the cafe, in the bar or bakery I would know everything about the customer before they would come in that they would need, but the customer won't think about that until the moment they're probably about to leave. As to all of those questions they probably should have told you or asked you about. So your event is not necessarily their most important thing in their life that day.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, it's just probably a little blip on a radar and they're not, yeah, yeah, which makes sense. And and at the same time I know there sometimes we we feel this resistance of oh, should I mention this one more time, or will I like go on people's nerves and be like, oh, why should like? And it no, really, just keep, I mean, in a friendly tone and voice, right, just mention it again and maybe add a bit of more information to it, or yes and absolutely, and I've.
Naomi Rose:I certainly found that automation was the way forward, so having automated systems in place that sent out reminders was really helpful. I just I find it helpful for my own personal experience because when you've got busy lives and stuff going on, we're all busy life happens, you've got many things to do, yeah, but it's such a good point yeah sorry, good, yeah, I was just going to say, but I mean, even like having a you remember something's happening on any given day, yeah, but that reminder 10 minutes beforehand can go.
Naomi Rose:Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I was like how could I forget about that? It was only like three hours ago that I looked at my diary oh yeah, so that happens yeah it does happen, but you think about it from your own experience.
Naomi Rose:It's the same, when you're dealing with any event that you're organizing, that that person is probably experiencing the same thing and they're trying to figure out where they need to go, how to get there and all of those details, probably running a few minutes late, and the more you can do to make their life easier beforehand and communicate with them, that will be just. It'll make the event and whatever's going on so much better. They'll already be loving it before they've got there. Their expectations will be like they'll be really happy to have all of that communication yeah, we, like you say, we expectation management really of people.
Naomi Rose:You know this is what's going to happen and that you don't want to by sending one email. It's probably isn't enough. People want to feel excited about what they're going to come and see and do, yeah, so you want to build that excitement. So actually you're doing them a disservice by only sending them one email. You're better off to send them several so that they can get like really excited, hyped up, they can be ready for whatever you're doing yes, you know, a little bit of sleep pre there yeah.
Naomi Rose:So you've got to think about it in the other way, and that's that's always. The ethos I had at the the cafe, bar and bakery was that I want people to come and enjoy the experience they're having there. It was about being personable, it's about being friendly, and I wanted them to get to know us as a business, as a community, as people, and I wanted them to come and feel like they've had like a like, almost like a giant hug, had a really great experience and they go away happy. That was that was the, the aim. That was all I was there to do. Yeah, but that starts the minute they first see me somewhere and that's got to consistently go all the way through. And I think we sometimes forget that the communications part is often the most important part of it, rather than the actual event itself. The event itself is even.
Jennifer Walter:Though that's important, it's all of the other stuff in between the anticipation before the event yeah, absolutely I think that's such a beautiful reminder that a we we got to think about the way before, which also is tricky, right? I? I mean you said it yourself it starts from wherever they met you and could be, from I don't know, an ad in a newspaper to your social media, to the word of mouth from someone Like there's no way how you can control it. And then kind of like keeping it up, keeping a united vision of what you want to put out into the world, to then actually the event itself, and it just it just reminded me I had we booked a hotel I think it was two summers ago in Northern Italy, and that was the best like anticipation period I ever had before checking into a hotel. It was like it was so great.
Jennifer Walter:They sent me, I think, four or five emails and every email was different, you know. One was about activities, one was about food, with pictures and stuff. One was about, hey, this is our amazing spa, please book ahead If you want to make it, if you want to make sure you I don't know we can cater to what you want. And then one was actually a questionnaire with how like, how would you like, I don't know, what would you like to do during your stay. If you want to do kids activities, then you could say kids activities and then they would like I did actually deform like a couple of times because I wanted to know what's going to happen, and they even went as nitty gritty as to please let us know your size so we can provide the right bathrobes in your room.
Naomi Rose:Wow, that's amazing, isn't it.
Jennifer Walter:I was like I felt so welcomed and so sane and and I mean I'm and especially bad. Bathrobe sizes are like sometimes they're just like yeah, there's no way I cover my ass with that, but it's like thank you, just so. I mean seemingly small things and it was so easy for them to they. I mean, yes, they had. They had to put an effort to set up that funnel, that email sequence one time and then you just run it through and it's so easy to kind of like feel inclusive of people. It made such a difference. I went there like the whole drive there, the whole four hour drive.
Naomi Rose:I was like I'm so excited to get to this hotel but it just, it just got to show actually how much difference that made. But the other side of it, from an operations point of view, from a business point of view, we're setting up that one sequence that built that anticipation.
Naomi Rose:You were saving yourself a lot of inbound questions coming back into you where people not sure what to do, and also people will probably spend more money with you so, oh for sure, we spend more money there than just like the what we pay per night per room yeah, but because you, you were given all of that in advance and it was it.
Naomi Rose:Like I say it takes. It takes a little bit of time to set up these sequences, but once they're set up, that's it. They run and you don't have to do any more. It's brilliant. So again, you're managing your customers without having to do any additional work and you're not having to manage every single customer individually in that same way, because you've got that set up and some people you will do I mean as a as a business you do have to then have individual conversations with someone, particularly in food and hospitality, when it comes down to dietary requirements or yeah special access needs and all of these things that you do have to think about.
Naomi Rose:But you're taking a lot of the legwork out of getting all of that information, taking your staff admin time.
Jennifer Walter:Focus on other things, yeah more important yeah, but it's so true, right, and even it also translates to like non-business, um hosted events. I mean I'm I'm planning my 30th birthday party in june and um, we go like in the afternoon we go bowling, um, like all the friends with, with their kids um an afternoon, and then dinner is just like ladies only, no kids, just, but like I made sure to include in the oh, are you attending, are you attending in the afternoon? So, and also like please list your dietary requirements or desires. And I mean I know I have the where it is because I have celiacs.
Jennifer Walter:So, yeah, all lovely loaves and bread and breads and pies, I'm like, yeah, not going to happen, but it's such a small thing to do to check and it gets forgotten so so often. I mean, I noticed from my personal experience the countless of birthday parties I've been within, like immediate family, where they're like, oh, we don't have actually have any food for you and it's just, it makes you feel so not included, it makes you just feel like you're not wanted and there could be so easy ways to prevent this. So, yeah, thinking to be more inclusive, definitely, and that.
Naomi Rose:I certainly found, and it was a. It was a big learning curve for me, because when I first opened the cafe and bar, I didn't. We weren't going to be vegan or anything like that. We were going to have some, a couple of options, but we realized very, very quickly that there were more people that had dietary requirements than we realized when we first anticipated. So we we adjusted, we made a change and we worked hard to get some really great recipes so we could make gluten-free bread, so we could actually make really good.
Naomi Rose:Good, all the bread was vegan anyway, but we also had gluten-free bread so we could actually make really good. Or the bread was vegan anyway, but we also had gluten-free and vegan bread, because some people can't have either gluten or dairy, yes, and so we made sure we had cakes that were also that and, like, even with our breakfasts we had, our sausages were gluten-free. So we knew that people could also who had gluten intolerances couldn't have that and it. It didn't actually make any difference much in terms of cost, because I I work with local suppliers, but it makes all of the difference to the customer. I always use these examples. So I had a bar and I don't drink. I don't drink alcohol at all. I haven't drunk for years but I love cocktails, and what always used to really annoy me was when I would go out in the evening to a bar or something, I would get a drink in a different shaped glass because I didn't drink, oh yeah.
Jennifer Walter:Oh, yes, oh, I know, yeah, but you can make it.
Naomi Rose:I know what you're talking about. I always had like a weird coke kitty shaped glass.
Jennifer Walter:I'm like what yeah?
Naomi Rose:And I mean I tell people I don't, I haven't, I'm not ashamed of it or anything like that, and I have no problem with not drinking. It was just the way it was, just like you don't need to give me an inferior drink just because I'm not drinking, and you can make some amazing cocktails without alcohol. There's some incredible ones out there. I've had some incredible ones, yes, and it was and it's been a rising trend in not drinking, and that was one of the things I'm like. When we opened the cocktail bar again, it was like I don't want people to feel excluded because they can't have something yeah and that's exactly I made the experience as nice or like same or better
Jennifer Walter:when they choose not choose or can't have alcohol or gluten or whatever it is.
Naomi Rose:And it's again. It's a bit of a. It's a bit of a myth that the food is in superior because it's missing something. Actually it's not true. I've just been, I've just finished the almost finished the series of Great British Menu here in the UK and one of the chefs that got through to the final without giving anything away was actually a vegan chef. He did the whole menu vegan and I've eaten some fabulous vegan food and actually I've. Often, if I've gone out for a special dinner or it's been a set menu, I often ask for vegan because I want to see what they've got. So I've had some really as an and I'm a vegetarian, so I've had some really dodgy vegetarian food. Where, like my, my biggest irk is living in Northorkshire. We've been sampling all the sunday roasts in the north of yorkshire because we are known for our yorkshire puts up here and I have literally, when it comes to vegetarian sunday roast, there has been a right old mega mix. Some of them are fabulous, some of them are really great.
Naomi Rose:You have wellingtons and all sorts lovely. One of the weird, one of the weirdest ones was it was called a halloumi roast. I'm like, okay, that halloumi and gravy, that sounds a bit odd, but it could be a northern thing. I thought, oh, I wonder what halloumi roast is. It was literally slabs of halloumi. It was the weirdest thing. So I had a full roast dinner just with slabs of halloumi on the side and nobody yeah, that's it yeah that.
Jennifer Walter:That's just lazy for me, that's just like, yeah, so yeah, there's just it's lazy, and just like, why then? Why am I always asking, why even then offer it at all? You know, I mean that's the thing. You, I mean don't care. If you're up front and say, you know, we're like meat, only Deal with it. I'm like cool, I can decide whether to go there or not, fine, right. But if you're like, oh yes, we also do like I don't know vegan and gluten free, and blah, blah, blah, and then you go there and you're like, why even bother? Like just don't do it if you hate doing that, just don't do it.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, absolutely. And there are some restaurants that absolutely say we, we are this. We cannot accommodate that because we are not set up to do that. I'm like, good, I know that I'm not going to be your customer, I'm not the right person for you. There's plenty of other places that I think, yeah, and I'm fine with that, it's like, but yeah, somehow we people are feeling the need that they need to serve it. If you're going to serve it, do it. Right is my view.
Jennifer Walter:If you're going to serve it, make an effort to do it, because you'll get known for doing something really well and there's a lot more people that want that and I think it's an important lesson right, which, just if you're, if you do whatever you do, whatever you serve, you don't want a house. Just do it with the full heart or just don't. If you just feel like you should, you should include whatever in your christmas dinner or in your service business or whatever, just don't.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, and one of the things I actually yeah, make it clear and with those, with the people that have, you know, like special dietary needs or whatever that might be, or even when it comes to access and stuff like that particularly in the business.
Naomi Rose:We had to make sure that we were able to make sure people were sitting and accommodated comfortably for whatever they needed. Sometimes, if you're not sure, just pick up the phone and have a conversation and go right, this is what we got we have. We used to serve afternoon tea, so we used to do like the three tiers with the sandwiches, the spoons and all the cakes on top.
Naomi Rose:Yes, lovely and we used to make them fresh.
Naomi Rose:So we needed to know people's orders in advance or dietaries, and we'd tell people the menu because people want to know what they're going to get to eat.
Naomi Rose:And I'd always say do you have any dietary requirements or dislikes? Because there is nothing worse than if you don't like something being served it. So I always wanted to know what people's dislikes are, and if we got someone come back and say, well, actually I've got x, y and z, sometimes we would actually just pick up the phone and go this is what we're thinking, would you be happy with this? Because then you've managed again, manage expectations, you've already had that conversation and you showing that you care, that you want people to have a good experience rather than a substandard one. It's just those little touches and sometimes, having that conversation, they can go well, actually, no, that doesn't really work. And then you can actually have that open dialogue and say, well, if we did this, and then you can, they'll know that they're going to get something they're happy with I can already hear like I mean, I know that everyone listening is probably not, is not in that category, but I know from this inclusive talk we're having.
Jennifer Walter:You know you're having. I know, like I had this in other situations in my work or in private life, where it's like oh, but it's so much effort and then everyone comes and requests we can gluten-free, blah, blah, blah, and it's, we can't handle it, it's too much work, blah, blah, blah, blah. All these excuses, um, like how, from a business, from like really like a cost and business perspective, isn't that just like bullhorse crap?
Naomi Rose:yeah, I mean you can.
Naomi Rose:I mean I have had people that have had come into my business before and have got a laminated card of all their allergens and I'd have to say I really do not feel comfortable serving you because my kitchen has and I was as a legal requirement anyway and as as a conscientious business owner we have all of those products that are allergens in our kitchen and we have to tell our customers that.
Naomi Rose:We do tell our customers that, particularly people that have allergens and often I hear now that people, particularly in some coffee shops, will ask whether you're having a speciality milk or something if you go to have coffee, whether it's a dietary or preference, because there is a lot of people that just choose preferences, but there are some people. I would absolutely say I do not feel comfortable serving you because I cannot guarantee your safety when you've got this many allergies and issues within my environment and I'm not just talking one or two, I'm talking a good list of at least 10 to 12, and it was laminated, it was serious. I'm like you could probably have a glass of water and I would feel safe, but you, it's on you if you eat anything. What I can tell you is what we've got.
Naomi Rose:You can then make that decision on you we could tell you what's what the ingredients are, and yeah, but if you're that sensitive to food, I cannot necessarily guarantee you're going to go away okay, because I know I've got those products. So I think there are some things, and I did. I think that one of the most challenging allergens that I had was citric acid, which is a really, really bespoke one and it's not one of the listed ones that you legally need to know about. But citric acid is in everything. I mean, it's in anything that you can think of. It's there, it is in lots of things, and so I spent a lot of time this one customer making sure that they were absolutely safe and probably at the end of it it wasn't worth the money doing it.
Naomi Rose:But she was part of a bigger party so it was a really difficult balance to actually kind of go. I don't feel that. But again, I had that phone call with her beforehand and just checked, but when she actually arrived, this is what we got on the menu. Are you happy with all of that? Because your citric acid is used as a preservative, so it gets into so many dry and ingredients that need longevity. So there are those situations where you think it's really not worth it, but that customer might welcome well, sometimes. We hope they come back. Sometimes we don't, because they are tricky, but they probably tell their friends about that experience.
Jennifer Walter:So, even though you might not see the return on investment at that point, yeah, or even if they might not come back, their neighbors might come or their work colleagues or yeah, but I imagine this is a very tricky conversation to have because you get very personal um on, and especially if it's an illness that's preventing you, that like not just a dietary choice, but that's actually you need to because of your illness or your just your body is not functioning right or you get into hyperbolic shock or whatever. Like how, how do you approach um tricky conversations like this? How do you? What is your mindset going in? How do you hold yourself during these conversations? Because I know I'm not. I'm always kind of like, oh, I don't, I don't want to have this conversation because I anticipate it's gonna.
Naomi Rose:It's gonna get really tricky yeah, I mean it's a bit like ripping off a band-aid sometimes. You just got to make that that cool.
Naomi Rose:I have had yeah, grow a pair, do it. Yeah, I mean it's. They're never easy and I I did get people that said that we'd serve them food. That was incorrect and I had some really stringent processes that were in place. My staff were very well trained. We were all trained. We were all had. We had awareness all over the kitchen. But when we did get people phoned up and say like, say, someone who can't have gluten phone up to say you gave my wife bread, well, I don't think we did, because I know my staff well enough to know that they know it inside out and we had at every touch point we made sure that there were systems in place. We would still review and discuss it and take it, take it as feedback that we could use. It's never nice to get those tricky situations. It never is that. They're always. They always end up taking more mind space up than the other 100 things that had gone right that day. But we always sense, checked ourselves. We always went back through the step by step we talked about it?
Jennifer Walter:did we miss something or did we had a blind spot?
Naomi Rose:or what just yeah yeah, and occasionally something would go out to the wrong table and was the wrong thing and it was. It would be a genuine human mistake because we all make mistakes and people would react very quickly to change that and it we. It would be a genuine human mistake because we all make mistakes and people would react very quickly to change that and it we. You know, never, no one ever died from it or anything like that. There was never anything wrong. But mistakes do happen, so sometimes you just have to react to them quickly, yeah, and just deal with them and be perfectly human and all I should say humble and like yeah, exactly.
Jennifer Walter:But I mean own exactly. Own it and just be like. You know this happened. We're not happy about it. It happened like how can we course correct now that you still feel welcome here in our space?
Naomi Rose:yeah, absolutely. We used to have some, I mean, one of the things we always did, and it wasn't just like a throwaway sort of thing, but when people came to pay we'd always say, how was everything for you? Because our view was we'd rub it. If something wasn't quite right, you'd tell it to a face so we can do something about it, then go and write it on a forum somewhere or on a review site. That then we can't mitigate at the time. So we always we were always very open with our customers and we used to have it a few times where people would come to the till and you'd say, is everything okay?
Naomi Rose:and we, it was a genuine question, it wasn't just like you know something yeah, yeah, because I've been told to say it, and you get people come up oh should, shall I say something, or shall you? And they're like okay, what's going on? It wasn't what I ordered, but I ate it anyway. I'm like why did you not say something clearly? That was just. It's just things like that. We're like tell us and we can correct it, you know clearly.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, either we misunderstood or you said the wrong thing, it doesn't really matter who was in the wrong here but yeah, yeah, yeah, we don't need going away having forced do you feel?
Naomi Rose:they didn't want to like inconvenience you or like yeah, they feel they've just said I mean, I've had it. I often say, like when I go to restaurants I will say something's not quite right because they might be getting it wrong for someone else as well, and I would rather know if I've made a mistake and I can correct it for the rest of the day or whatever, then find out several hours later that it wasn't what someone had expected or something wasn't quite right. It just these things happen. It's just part of the course of any any human. But yeah, I mean, it was always finding out what people, how you know, how people are just checking in on them, making sure they're all okay. It's all of those sorts of things that really do make a difference and they actually feel like they're yeah, they're cared for I'm curious.
Jennifer Walter:We said you you already shared like one of the biggest things in making people feel welcome in your space is the whole management of the expectations beforehand, before they enter, before they come in, and the whole, and then open come. Open and honest conversation, communication about what's going on, what do you need? How can we provide what you need? Are there other, if I don't know, effective communication techniques that you and your staff kind of use to make guests feel at ease and welcome when they're in your space?
Naomi Rose:I think when they're through the door, it's just being able to greet them, make sure they've got the table checking on them, and even one of the things I say is just introduce them, introduce yourself and your name. I mean most in my, in my cafe and bar and bakery people. People knew all our names and you know, even we were dog friendly so we knew all the dog's names as well, but we also knew our customers names as well. It was, it was part of the when you put a name to a face and you start to build that rapport in that relationship and people feel special knowing that they know your name.
Naomi Rose:It's a really good way. But it'd be just keeping an eye. You've got always had when you're I mean it's some days it's really hard, particularly on like the really really busy days when you're fully booked, have your eyes everywhere, but it's like take a scan of the room, see what's going on, checking in on those people, making sure they're okay, because from a customer point of view, there's nothing worse than not being able to get attention of the server or whoever's looking after you yeah, if you excuse me yeah, like, yeah, and it's not, and it's an ongoing.
Naomi Rose:I always order water with my food. I always have a jug of tap water, but this is a notorious joke my husband and I have with each other that if I order it it will never arrive wherever we go. It's like somehow I'm, I'm, I become silent when I'm asking for it, so then he will have to ask afterwards, and it's just this, ongoing jokes. Now I ask just to see and it's kind of like it's amazing how many people then you have to ask two or three times water. It's not a big thing, but it's just those simple little details and it's those places that put water ask you straight away would you like water for the table? Yeah, it's almost like that automatic process.
Naomi Rose:I think one of the other things that I've certainly noticed and not that I go to McDonald's say, I haven't been to McDonald's in years and years and years. But the one thing that they always said and it's a really good strap line was McDonaldcdonald's is the biggest small business in the world because they've created that prototype that they then franchised out, but all of those systems, including how to look after their customers, how to make sure that they've got consistency with every single meal, wherever it was in the world, was really key, and it's the same we had. The processes were exactly the same, so that people came in. They want the same coffee over and over again. They don't. They don't want anything different. They want to know what they're going to get and it's that that makes a difference as well.
Naomi Rose:It's that consistency, because that's how you get repeat customers. You wouldn't go back to like whatever your local coffee shop is, week in, week out, if you didn't know you're going to get the same coffee every time. I mean, how frustrating is it when you get a different coffee every single time.
Jennifer Walter:You'd go to someplace god, yeah, yeah, so that is that is really important to get.
Naomi Rose:And yes, we made homemade cakes and homemade bread. There was never going to necessarily be one loaf that turned out, particularly with sourdough. The sourdough does what it wants to do. It was the flavour that was key in all of that right. So we might have a different selection of cakes. We probably would have standard cakes. One of the biggest sellers was still Victoria sponge. It was straight up.
Jennifer Walter:It's a classic.
Naomi Rose:Exactly, and I think sometimes we can overthink and overcomplicate stuff, and I don't. I'm someone who will push the boundaries and do weird flavors. I was the one that used to kind of do that, but people just wanted to get what they like. They want to go into a coffee shop and know they're going to get what they like, or go and get a little bread and know it's going to be the same every time.
Jennifer Walter:Do you think it has something to do with with, with comfort, like you know, and because it's everything, like our entire body, so uncertain, especially the last couple of years, that it, this is just, it feel it's comfort to know the victoria sponge is going to taste like the victoria sponge should, must, has to yeah, absolutely, and when you get something you like, you don't want to change it.
Naomi Rose:We're creatures of habit, we like routines, we like familiarity. That's what we love.
Jennifer Walter:So make sure that what you know, all of these things that you're doing, people feel that kind of consistency running all the way through it, because it does make a big difference yeah, this is so true and and sometimes hard to um, yeah, translate when, when you have different people working or you have it's a stressful day or whatever, and but I mean I just had the, the memory come to mind where I once had this like there was a new coffee place in town. They they had a fantastic flat white and the next time I went in it was just basically milk with I don't know it was coffee flavored milk, like it was just bad.
Naomi Rose:And.
Jennifer Walter:I'm like, oh no, I was so excited and like I never, I never went back that silly one time.
Naomi Rose:And it just yeah, yeah, but it's enough to put you off though, isn't it?
Jennifer Walter:yeah, it totally is, and I feel bad but it's just, yeah, it just put me off like no, I'm not, don't want to have, like coffee, coffee flavored milk again no, no, I couldn't come with that, yeah and also maybe going back to the personalization which I mean if, if, which makes sense.
Jennifer Walter:if you're a small like, if you're in a family event and you greet people by name, yeah, everyone's like. Oh sure, it makes sense. And if you're in a small business, a small bakery, it's probably more effort. Small bakery, it's probably more effort. But even you know, I once hosted in an online course and at the beginning I mean I couldn't greet everyone, but I just noticed, oh now, like um, anna is logging in, or like whoever is logging in, and I just named a couple of people to be like this is the kind of atmosphere or vibe I want to have here. We're personal, we're just kind of like setting the bar of like this is how I want it to be and it's just really crucial.
Jennifer Walter:And that's also a funny anecdote that comes to mind. Crucial. And that's also a funny anecdote that comes to mind when, when I was teaching um online marketing, my old, my first lesson would always also be like expectation management of what you're gonna go, what you're gonna accept in this class, what is the bar, what we're gonna do and what we're not gonna do, and just kind of like have everyone on the same page and it was so. It was more effort at the beginning and it was uncomfortable to kind of like draw the boundaries, but it probably saved me so much time down the road because people knew what's what's going to fly and what's just not going to fly yeah, absolutely.
Naomi Rose:I think the boundaries are really important and and I think even with, like, the communications and particularly I found that with customers and also, to an extent, my staff, because I had an open door policy anyway, but I notoriously Sundays I wouldn't always work on Sundays and I'll get streams of messages sometimes from my staff about questions relating to stuff and I'll be like I'm going to tell you all now in my group I'm not going to respond to anything on Sundays, because it's'll be like I'm going to tell you all now in my group I am not going to respond to anything on Sundays because it's my day and I'm not going to do that. So if you message me on a Sunday, you will not get a response. It's the same with dealing with people, of managing their expectations, of how you're going to get back to them and what they're going to expect from you as well as what they're going to get out of it at the end.
Naomi Rose:I think another thing about, like I was saying, about checking in on people. If you're hosting your own event or something like that, taking the time to actually speak to everyone that's come along individually, you know, go and have a quick conversation, check in and see how they're doing what's going on, it makes a big difference when you are the host of it, because you've taken that effort. They come to you and you've taken the effort to go and actually have a few minutes with them and work the room. As such, it goes a long way and I often think like if I'm going to an event having something to take away at the end of it, or something that, even if it's not a physical thing to take away, but feel like you're going home with something that is always a really nice touch, because then that keeps it in your mind as a really good event, but it's kind of in your head or something like that oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely this.
Jennifer Walter:It's always interesting how, yeah, there's this, and you know like sometimes you cannot control what will stick out to the customer as this one thing. So you just you try to do everything and sometimes it works and sometimes it kind of doesn't work and you just have to also probably be really quick on your feet to course correct and just be like, yes, okay, let's okay, this went wrong, let's try, let's try something else. Let's kind of like double down or go with that yeah, I was going to say I'm a.
Naomi Rose:I'm a classical musician as well. So my, my sideline is I play in orchestras and I have done for years. But I have been, I'm on stage quite regularly, I go and perform quite regularly. There has not been one concert I've ever done where everything has gone smoothly. There is always, always something that will go wrong.
Naomi Rose:Yes, the key is is just to keep on going, because you will know, but they out there won't know. I mean, I've had it where soloists, when I'm playing in orchestras, and we've got a soloist playing at the front, you've lost their place and we know they've lost their place. Yeah, you just have to keep on playing, just keep on, keep on swimming. Yeah, people, and it's how you respond to that. If you get into a panic and think, oh, something's gone wrong, something is going to go wrong every single time you're doing events, something won't go at the way you want it to go. It's just the nature of the beast. Yeah, it doesn't matter, it really doesn't. It's actually just being able to kind of think, on your feet, pivot, get on with the next thing. That's the, that's the important bit how was?
Jennifer Walter:is there like a shift um of mindset or how you approach these things from I? I mean the first time this happens, of course, I mean you don't know it, it's probably, I don't know. At some points you get some sort of routine. I mean, when you've done a couple of events, like I done trade shows when I was back in corporate, and after a couple of them I knew every goddamn time there was something going wrong. So it wasn't less. I already anticipated it, I planned for it. But how, especially like, do you really just like generally, if you plan something, have an emergency protocol that you can rely back on?
Naomi Rose:Yeah, I mean, sometimes I know, like, for instance, as a baker, we never have just enough ingredients. We always have a bit extra because something will go wrong. Sometimes things just don't right work right. Sometimes it's just a matter of sourdough. Yeah, I mean, I've literally we've come into a fridge which has failed overnight and sourdough has to rest in the fridge. Our sourdough rested up 72 hours in the fridge. It was reading 15 it should be three degrees. We nearly lost a whole batch of sourdough because the fridge failed. And again, I have processes in place to check fridges so I knew it was wrong. Okay, I could open it and go yeah, this is not cold. Um, I mean, thankfully that we didn't lose all the sourdough actually managed, didn't come out the shape we'd like, but it certainly was fine in terms of being able to sell it.
Naomi Rose:But, um, sometimes these, these things just happen. You just have to. You have to learn how to think on your feet. Sometimes you have to learn how to be resourceful if you're in like I've been in the middle of service and things have gone horribly wrong, like I've had power go out in the middle of service and it's like the worst nightmare, particularly when you're stacked and you've got the tickets on the board. Sometimes things just happen or your staff comes in, they've had, they've cut themselves, or something like that. You just have to think right, what's the most important thing now, or what's gone wrong. If something does go wrong, sometimes you just have to tell people something's gone wrong, we're dealing with it.
Naomi Rose:And I was doing an opera performance the other day actually performance the other day actually and as we got out on, got out on stage waiting for then the conductor to come out before the cast came on stage to do their thing, one of the oboes um, I don't know what quite gone wrong, but the oboist, her instrument wasn't working properly. Oh right, and she's very key. There was many solos in that piece that involve the oboe. So it's like so someone just stood up and say we're having an oboe issue. Can you just bear with us while we sort this out? Anyway, we managed to fix the oboe and carry on. But sometimes it is just kind of saying if there's something that's not going right, or in my world, when I get too busy with orders, tell the customer they got away. Yeah, in my, in my world, when I get too busy with orders, tell the customer they got away yeah, because are we naturally like?
Jennifer Walter:are some of us natural, naturally born calm problem solvers, or is there a way we can learn to, to I think, more quick on our feet, to be more calm during stressful situations?
Naomi Rose:I mean, I'm I'm known for being, even though sometimes my husband will know when I'm panicking because he lives with me all the time, so he'll know when I'm in panic, but it's um. But you know, we've had, we've had incidences where the microwave caught fire in the kitchen and we look quite no one would have known behind the scenes that we opened it up. But oh, look, it's on fire. It's fine, it's fine, let's chuck it out the window, we'll carry on.
Naomi Rose:I mean, sometimes it's literally keep home and carry on. Yeah, literally it is, and you know it's still in service. Okay, right, okay, we've got a spare microwave, let's carry on again. So sometimes you're able just to deal with them. Sometimes, being in those situations, it's a bit like practice. You just have to take a deep breath, have a step back, have a think for a minute yeah and then work out a plan of I, my, um, my bit.
Naomi Rose:My cafe bar baker was named after my grandmother else who made, because she always wanted to run tea room. But it was actually the reason I named it after her, because her ethos was she was very positive, but she always looked for solutions rather than find the problem. So it was you had to have that kind of mentality of right. Okay, there's going to be a choice here of what I do next.
Jennifer Walter:I just have to decide my energy, my focus on yeah, moving forward, not worrying about what's just happened.
Naomi Rose:Let's focus on what comes next, because you can't control what's just happened. It's happened, so you just have to keep. What's the solution? What are my options? How do I move forward from this? And there is always an option. It's just working out what the right one is for you, and I think that that it takes. It takes practice. It's not easy to get that. It takes having gone through a few of them and again, like I say, I've been performing on stations. I was about six years old, so you learn how to cope with the unexpected in public ways. You're doing that, but in in some it didn't. It didn't just come naturally on the first attempt. It took time, it and you just have to take each experience as a learning curve and what you can take on to the next one and probably really you.
Jennifer Walter:You gotta, you gotta do it right. You can't probably mentally strategize. Yes, you can have backup emergency plans and whatever to do if xyz, but it's probably you just really have to live through every single shit hits the fan moment and be like what we're gonna do now yeah, yeah, absolutely, and sometimes you have to ask for help.
Naomi Rose:I mean, that's sometimes our biggest problem is that we don't know how to ask for help, and I watch it so many times, particularly if you're hosting and you're watching someone in the kitchen and I'm I'm a guest and I'm I'm not, I will naturally go and go. What can I help?
Jennifer Walter:what do you?
Naomi Rose:need, yeah, and I think it's sometimes even saying not even how can I help you. It's like what needs doing. It's giving them the right question, because can I help you?
Jennifer Walter:yes or no? Yes?
Naomi Rose:where you say what do you need doing, they have to give you an actual answer rather than a yes, no. So it's an open question. So that would be sometimes, um, my staff would tell me off for doing it, because I was always like no, I'm fine, you're not fine, what can I do?
Naomi Rose:what needs to be doing yeah, what, what's going to get this out the door quicker. And sometimes you would need someone to basically kind of go I'm here to help, let me do something. And then suddenly, when you get someone helping you, everything comes a bit easier.
Jennifer Walter:Was this a big journey for you to learning how to ask for help, definitely, definitely.
Naomi Rose:I mean, having come from a corporate sort of more of a corporate background and I used to manage sort of digital teams, so everybody had quite a specific role and job and delegation was took me a while to learn because I've always been very independent as a manager. I learned and I had and again, this is probably a mindset thing as well by delegating, people are learning skills and knowledge that will help them further their career if that's what they want to do, not, rather than me doing it all the time. And I I knew when managing digital teams there were jobs I couldn't do that they could, like I am not a web developer, I could, I can read basic code and I could write basic code, not to the level they. They could do that, yeah. So I don't need to know how to do their job. For them to do a good job, I need to give them the direction and the environment for them to Exactly.
Naomi Rose:I need to make sure they had the right, the right tools, the right motivation, they had the right information so they can move forward and do their job. When I went to running my own business, of course it was like I learned everything because I was learning from the ground up. I had 17 staff. There were things that I had to delegate to them because I could not do everything, and it took me a good year to really learn how to let go of stuff, and even stuff like I would do. I would go front of house, I would do the kitchen, but actually I had to kind of go.
Naomi Rose:I'm the CEO of this business. It's my job to lead the ship. I can't do that if I'm serving coffee all day and I don't need to be the one that trains all the staff in how to serve coffee. I need to make sure that my front of house manager has everything that they need to do it, because they're the ones going to be doing it day in and day out and being in front of the customers all day. So why don't I give them the tools that they need to do it so they can develop and learn new skills that will further them in their careers, just like I wanted to do yeah and it's so frustrating as an employee wanting to do more, wanting to learn more, wanting that, have that ambition that is not being able to do that because someone is blocking them from their perspective.
Naomi Rose:And that's what you have to think about is, how did I feel when I was in that position? So I had to have a bit of a sit down and a chat to myself and go hang on a minute. You're doing the wrong job here.
Jennifer Walter:You need to be back in the CEO box.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, and you know, sometimes people are like oh well, they're not, I'm not doing it the way I'm doing it.
Jennifer Walter:Did it matter? No, was it still the right result?
Naomi Rose:yes, so sometimes, yeah, it's just a different flavor of service and it's fine clients customer lofted, everyone was fine like yeah, and I don't know everything and I I didn't know going in to open a cafe. I came from a corporate world. I had no idea, I had no scooby-doo of what I had to do to over the cafe or I never run a food service before, ever, ever.
Naomi Rose:I didn't know how to make scones. My customers called my scones rock cakes for a good few months, because my staff were better at me than making them. I learned how to make them because they helped me. They helped train me. I gave them what they needed to do and built it together. So that was it was a which is ultimately your role as a CEO right.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, it's not maybe doing the scones? And at the same time I remember for my corporate days, when I was hired to do a specific job and then they wouldn't actually let me do that. I'm like, why do you even hire me in the first place? I mean, you hired me for my expertise and now you're like no better yourself. Well, there you go.
Naomi Rose:I mean sure you, you do did then and I, whenever I've employed people, even in like I've employed and managed a lot of people over the years, even in my own business I wouldn't necessarily look to see whether they could do the actual job.
Naomi Rose:I would look to see what their attitudes were, what they were looking to do, yeah, whether they will be the right team fit because you can teach the people the skills they need. Yeah, and I find it so frustrating and I found this a lot the industry in like, recruiting people generally changed, where we've now become feeling the need we need to recruit people that can do the job standing on their head before they've even even got in the door. But 15 years ago you would recruit people that were 80% able to do the job, because the 20% is what would make them stay, because they would get to learn and grow and move on. Yet somehow we've come into this world where, unless you're overly qualified, you won't get the job, and it's wrong. It just feels so inherently wrong because what are you giving back to the people that are working for you?
Jennifer Walter:and that's what creating dissatisfaction. Right, you have no learning, you have no personal development, there's no perspective.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, that's and it was one of the yeah and it's, and it's one of the big things.
Naomi Rose:Whenever I was employing anyone was, you know, in a, in a cafe environment, there are people that will come just because they're running the money, but they learn skills while they're there. They learn things that will help further them in their career. And I had people that went on to better jobs afterwards, that had gone on to do other things, but they they used their skills and knowledge from what they learned with me in whatever they were doing going forward, and I was like well, I want to employ someone that's going to get something from this job, rather than someone that is overly qualified, that are going to be bored within five or six months because there's nowhere for them to grow. And I think that is the way it's changed and that's even thinking now, like I work in my business on my own, I don't have any help at the moment, but when I start to get to a point where I'm employing people, that is their personal development of where do they want to go what do they want to do?
Jennifer Walter:and more of a value, of a value of fit than a skill fit necessarily because, as you, said you can train skill.
Naomi Rose:To a certain degree you can train skills, yeah absolutely, and it's, and it's also about understanding people's different personalities, the way they learn and how they work, because everybody is everyone is different, and it's almost like I had people in my teams that would challenge me, and that was really important, because I don't want lots of mini me's in the team, because that's not great for the business. I wanted people that would also challenge me and ask those questions to me. That would push me as well. That was it was important to have all of those balance of personalities that would work together but equally that would be able to bring different perspectives as well.
Jennifer Walter:I think that is so important which is also sounds challenging, if I mean you don't want to have old mini-me's in your team but at the same time, the more diverse a team gets, naturally the more you also have to invest in managing the team and just bringing it all together. What was your approach on bringing people together who have very different backgrounds and personalities and experiences?
Naomi Rose:For me, it was about people knowing each other and understanding each other. So in order to work together, they had to really understand how they, how they could work together and what they needed, and sometimes it would be a matter of me explaining and maybe giving them information. I have people that would. I have people that would stand up in front of an entire room for little people and ask a CEO a question that's in my previous business that they would. They would have no problem in standing up in front of 200 people and asking the question that everyone wanted to know the answer to but didn't want to ask, and they would just ask it as blunt as it was.
Naomi Rose:It should be said and I had people like that in my people that that was one of the people in my team. And then I had other people that were quite quiet and reserved and had a very different approach, maybe a bit more of a creative way sometimes. So it was a matter of kind of using the team and their strengths together, so getting them to understand and know each other, getting them to understand how they work, how they they learn, how they did different things, and bringing them on the journey with you. So it was about being like we're talking about inclusion. I work collaboratively. I can't say that word but yeah, I'm not an autocratic leader.
Naomi Rose:I'm not someone that will go. This is how it should be done and this is the way it should be done. I like to learn from other people as much as I want them to learn from me. So I bring the team together by getting them involved with different ideas, and you are going to have difference of opinion, absolutely. But I think it's having that open mind to accept that you there are people that might do different things differently to you, and do they work sometimes? No, do they work up times? Yes, and it's. It's just being able to balance balance that it can.
Naomi Rose:It can be tricky with the team, but I also, even before I would even employ someone, I would actually get them to trial with the with the business. Come and work, come and meet some of the team. Um, because I wanted to get their opinions, because their opinions were just as important as mine. I wasn't going to be the one doing the doing, and we all know that sometimes, when someone's in front of the big boss not I was a big boss in that sense, but they behave very differently from when they're actually a team member?
Naomi Rose:yes, yeah, and what I saw and what my staff saw, and my staff were very open with me. As I was open with them, I would get like quite, quite blunt and very honest feedback about people as to whether they thought they were a good and you?
Jennifer Walter:you took that into the hiring consideration oh, completely.
Naomi Rose:If they were like no, they were no and I'll be like I'm never gonna, it's never gonna work. It will never work for the person that I'd be employed, it will never work for the team. So if they were categoric, I don't don't think so, and sometimes I would have people where I'm not sure and they'll go I really like them, like okay, well, let's put them on probation.
Naomi Rose:Try and see yeah, I, they might have seen something that I didn't, and I have to be that over-minded about it and sometimes I was right, sometimes I was wrong and again sometimes.
Jennifer Walter:It is just about being able to take in different opinions and as a leader, you have to gather the information and then make a choice as to what the right path is for you and your business yeah, I think you have to be humble enough to and, as you've beautifully illustrated, to be humble enough to let in like other opinions than your own and other experiences, and and then then, at the end of the day, you, you, still have to make a decision, because that's what asks, what's asked of you as a leader that feel right for the bigger picture you want to achieve. So, yeah, I loved how you said that you're working collaboratively with your team and putting them into decision. That's exactly how I led teams in the past. Just really, we're on this together. We want to achieve this.
Naomi Rose:And.
Jennifer Walter:I'm not, I don't know, I don't want to be the arctic, the dictator behind the steering wheel like we're doing this, but I wanted people to enjoy their work as well.
Naomi Rose:I didn't want it to just be. I'm going to another job and just the world of hospitality particularly. People think it's an easy oh, I'll get a job as a waiter or waitress or you know I could be involved it is hard work.
Jennifer Walter:I would never say this is an easy job. Oh god, no, no, no it is.
Naomi Rose:It is. It is physically and mentally grueling. If you were not exhausted by the end of a Saturday, there is something wrong. I mean, I would. Some days I would be so tired I would come home and just cry because I was like I need to let it out somewhere. But you know, some some Saturdays would get to the end of the shift and particularly when I had the bar as well, I'd try and make sure that people couldn't do double shifts because it was just it was physically too exhausting for them.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, and so sometimes when you got to the end of a Saturday night, you'll be cleaning up about half past two in the morning and you're like my feet are absolutely pounding. So you've got to kind of find ways to keep people motivated and brought on with you and enjoy their jobs as well. And I think that's what's really important is just to kind of have that radar of how's this person doing, how are they finding it, what do they, what do they need? And even though you might kind of think, oh, I think they need that, if they tell you, no, they don't and they're okay, you just have to go. Okay, I'm seeing something else, but it's up, you're a. You're an adult and you can make that decision for yourself sometimes.
Jennifer Walter:So you have to just kind of trust people and yeah, absolutely yeah, so we've talked a lot about how could we be a better host, how couldn't we create better environments to make people feel, to make people feel welcome. So maybe to to round this up, what can we do? We're not every one of us is a host at some point, but absolutely 100 one of us is. Every one of us will be a guest one way or another at some point. What can we do to be a better guest?
Naomi Rose:well that. That is actually a really good question. I think it's just showing a lot of the time it's just showing appreciation and communicating back. Sometimes it's being able to give that honest feedback as well. Yeah, I think because, like I said, as a business owner, it's just showing appreciation and communicating back. Sometimes it's being able to give that honest feedback as well. Yeah, I think because, like I said, as a business owner, it's so frustrating when someone doesn't enjoy something and they go away and say something to someone else and then you find out later it's again. I think it's just as a good guest. It's just about showing up, being genuine about what you're doing, and one of my team would be so annoyed at anyone who was late as well, anyone who was like and I'm notorious for being late- If you're going to be late cool, just pick up the phone and give them a call, let them know you're going to be late.
Naomi Rose:I mean we did five minutes or so. It's just just one of those things.
Jennifer Walter:Some people were an hour late, oh okay no, no, I mean I'd say five, ten minutes, yeah, I mean, yeah can happen to the best of us.
Naomi Rose:An hour is that's rude yeah, it's rude and it and it would sometimes be that half the party would turn up the hour before as well and you're like like I'm holding a table for you now and we had to ask them to.
Naomi Rose:We would ask them to meet, because it was just it's just discourteous in a way. It wasn't really very fair on other patrons that were in the building. So I think it's just again turning up, being genuine, saying thank you afterwards. My mum always said always say thank you, always send a little note to say thank you afterwards, even if it's just a quick text or a quick call the next day to say that you've been appreciated for the event. I think that that also goes a long way and we'd always I would read the reviews and I learned that I had to read the reviews, not every day because I'd get obsessed with them, but read them at times when I thought am I in a good space to be able to deal with whatever I'm about to read, because sometimes you would get the negative ones and they will be a bit triggering.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah.
Naomi Rose:And I learned the hard way of how to deal with those. But actually, when you got a really good bit of feedback and it was just a really genuine, nice thank you, actually, even if they didn't write it on TripAdvisor, Google or Facebook or wherever they would stick it the ones that were always often nicer were the emails back that just came in to you and it wasn't about, it was more, just it picked up staff. It just highlighted what a good job they were doing and they were doing well and it was that added bit of encouragement what a good job they were doing and they were doing well, and it was that added bit of encouragement. So I think being able to say thank you, what you've enjoyed, it goes a long way with a host. As we all know, as we've all hosted, whatever it is you're hosting, even if it's just a takeaway with friends, there isn't some effort that goes into hosting. Oh God, yes.
Jennifer Walter:Hosting is yes.
Naomi Rose:It can be very stressful, so I think it's just like a matter of being able to kind of say thank you. I appreciate what you've done and I see what you have done.
Jennifer Walter:Thank you so much.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, that's all people need sometimes. We used to have a really great scheme in a previous company where it was called the Thank you Scheme and any member of staff could, and it had about 2,000 people in it. So it was quite a big company. But my team used to do this quite regularly. But if a member of staff in another area of the business or another team or even in the same team had done something that was like really noticeable, really worthwhile, they would get to send them a thank you voucher for something. So it could be like a 10 or 20 pound voucher.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, the amount, the amount was nominal but it was almost like it's not really about the amount. Right, it's not. It wasn't about money, no it could.
Naomi Rose:It could be just be a little thank you email or thank you, but it was a real. It was a real boost to say that you've done a really good job, you've gone out your way to help us here and we really appreciate you did that.
Jennifer Walter:So I think sometimes even just that kind of quick message- that's something nice to implement, even in your family, at home or something you know like. It could be really a nice way to implement that. And I feel, yeah, we often we're quick to complain when something's not great, and rightly so. We should say something if we're not happy with it. But yeah, we should equally express when we're really happy with a service or with something and express it.
Naomi Rose:Definitely I absolutely agree. If we're really happy with a service or with something and express it, definitely I absolutely agree. If you're really enjoying something, tell people. I mean, how much joy does that bring to everybody?
Naomi Rose:if you're actually telling people about that experience, that is good and telling the person that's created that experience for you and that's a beautiful reminder yeah, one of my mentors did a launch recently and she actually puts post-it notes of everybody who's joining our course on her windows during that launch phase because, yeah, she's and it's a, it's a big launch, she, she gets lots and lots of people taking part. So all of her windows are like covered in post-it notes.
Naomi Rose:But she's like these aren't just numbers to me, these are actual people yeah and I really appreciate every single one joining me and I want to make sure I know who they are, so you know it's. It's, in a way, it's just a really nice touch kind of go. I appreciate you. So thank you for being part of my world. So yeah.
Jennifer Walter:I do that. With every thing that comes into my mailbox, whether it's a sale or it's a sign up to a newsletter I'm like, oh okay, thank you, and I see you and I acknowledge it, like I, I make a design like an aligned decision to be in the moment and acknowledging that person investing their resources to to be in my space, just as a thank you, because people are doing that and it's amazing and we it's always nice to show gratitude for that yeah.
Naomi Rose:And then another thing from a guest perspective, which is less relevant in the cafe world, but certainly one for my having done a lot of parties over the years is actually sometimes, as a guest, it's just asking if someone needs help at the last minute, like just before the event, because that's when the crunch time happens. It's when, like, I've organized I used to be in events anyway, but, like when I've organized weddings or christening. I have a big family, so there are inevitably weddings and christening, so all turns but it's usually the day last 24 hours where the shit hits the fan and everything is kicking off and you're like is there anything you need from me because I've got some free time to pay? Some people are like yes, please, I just need you to buy the sugared almonds.
Naomi Rose:It's like I mean, who has sugared almonds at weddings anyway these days?
Jennifer Walter:But you know, there's always what needs to be done.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, and notoriously, as hosts and I am a victim of this myself I am totally overambitious with my timing. So sometimes having that one person reach out to go, is there anything I can bring? Have you missed anything? Do you need me to get anything? It's like can you just bring ice cream?
Jennifer Walter:you're like yes, you're my lifeline, thank, you?
Naomi Rose:yeah, exactly, I'm never going to get out because I'm making 10 pots of food and I just I need a dessert.
Jennifer Walter:I haven't got time yeah, so yeah, okay, yeah, reach out before if you have the capacity to do so and and offer help. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well, we thank you so much for letting us in and to how the world of hospitality and how you manage and your philosophy of leading with grace and then being humble about yourself and letting, also letting being able to teach and let others teach you. If people want to know more about you or work with you. How can people find you online? Where do you hang?
Naomi Rose:out. I actually hang out in two places because I'm a bit of a guise of two places. So you can find me at I Am Baking Boss, so that's where all my foodie stuff happens. So if you're interested in recipes or anything like that, go follow me at. I Am B boss. If you're more interested in the business and leadership and strategy side of it, then come and follow me at. I am Naomi C Rose. I'm on all the socials so come and check me out there.
Jennifer Walter:We will surely link both in the show notes so you can decide which which side of Naomi you want to go or we're two bros. Or both, who knows?
Naomi Rose:It's because I love spreadsheets and being creative, so I've got to have both, yeah you do you absolutely.
Jennifer Walter:And I've always one last question before I let you go off what book are you currently reading or what audiobook you're currently listening to?
Naomi Rose:Oh, do you know? I've got a stack of books that I am almost reading, and I usually save my non-business ones for when I'm on holiday, because that's when I like to react, but I'm currently actually in the middle of the second time of Denise Duffield Thomas, a Money Mindset Coach. Oh, yeah. Get Rich, Lucky Bitch.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, I've read it twice now. Yeah, I know that one. Yeah.
Naomi Rose:Which is really fantastic. I'm actually listening to a couple of different podcasts at the moment as well, though, so my audio version of podcasts because I'm, as you can guess, I love listening to podcasts, but I often um listen to Denise actually on the podcast. Sometimes, if you're in that kind of I need five minutes of Denise just to talk to me about my money mindset that I get into her.
Naomi Rose:She has a special vibe yeah, she does have a special vibe and I just, I just love her kind of bite-sized top tips, um. And then the other one I listened to quite oh but two, I suppose, is how to fail podcast.
Naomi Rose:That's really good oh, yeah, so definitely go check that one out yeah and um on the healthy health, health living, live, live more, feel better. I can't remember how that is called, but uh, dr Chastity say live better, feel more, something like that. I can't remember the words in the right order. It's something like that. So they're all the words, not necessarily in the right order, but it's another. It's another great podcast and it's I'm always really interested in, like different areas of the human body and how mind relates to everything else and how everything. So he has lots of really interesting, different, quite diverse range of guests and they're um, they're long form podcasts, they're epic, I mean, they're good day.
Jennifer Walter:Some of them are up to two hours wow yeah, but I love that it makes it if you know you're having something to do for two hours and then you can just like give it a go.
Naomi Rose:But you know he will talk to like books that I wouldn't necessarily be able to read because it's but I probably wouldn't get into them. But like gabor, mate and stuff like that, he has conversations with them to get a good feeling like you've read his book from having listened to this podcast. So definitely go check out.
Jennifer Walter:Oh yeah, we're gonna link we're gonna link all these uh mentioned resources and podcasts and the show notes. This is good. Yeah, this is also giving me. I, I know I know how to feel and um, the one with from, with denise, but um, the other one sounds intriguing too. So, yeah, it's, it's really, it's really interesting I've learned so much.
Naomi Rose:Even like one of his really early, early episodes, he actually had a conversation with a sleep consultant that ended up, which was back in the 90s, so this sleep consultancy was a not really a thing in the 90s but he ended up actually going and being the kind of sleep consultant for um the tour de france, for the england teams, team sky wow tour de france which, having previously worked with some of the top rated football clubs on sleep and that was pretty progressive back in the 90s, but that's I was just like.
Naomi Rose:this is so fascinating and you can relate so much of it to business, so it's definitely it's not just about a health podcast.
Jennifer Walter:No, you can always take something out of wherever you are in your journey.
Naomi Rose:Yeah, it's a really, like I say, diverse guest, so you can really pick and choose. There's hundreds of episodes now, so definitely go have a listen.
Jennifer Walter:Oh, that sounds amazing. Well, naomi, thank you so much for joining me on the scenic route podcast and uh, we're all gonna go and listen. Binge two episodes now, yeah absolutely.
Naomi Rose:I'll thank you very much for having me. It's been great. I really enjoyed chatting.
