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Scenic Route
Life's one helluva ride — why not enjoy the view?
The Scenic Route Podcast is your audio chill pill, serving up mindset shifts, laughs, and 'aha!' moments that fuel your soul and your wallet.
We're all about:
- Finding purpose (without the fluff)
- Embracing the soft life (because hustle culture is so last season)
- Real talk (sugar-coating? Not around here)
- Actionable insights (for when you're ready)
- Daring convos (we go there, babes)
- Building resilience (without the toxic positivity)
- Mindfulness for real people (with real problems)
Whether you're feeling lost and emotionally exhausted, hiding from your kids in the bathroom, need a break from the chaos, or want to zen out, we've got you covered.
Join Jennifer Walter, sociologist (MASoc UCC) and pathfinder, on this journey to inner peace — with a generous side of potty humour.
Ready to care less about others' BS and more about your own bliss? Hop on The Scenic Route. Trust us, the view up here is *chef's kiss*.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Your next chill session awaits. You coming?
Scenic Route
How to Make More Courageous Art with Emily Ellen Anderson
Ever feel like you want to create something beautiful but end up doing laundry instead? Do you have an inner artist waiting to break free?
Join us as we sit down with Emily Ellen Anderson, an art business coach who shares her vibrant journey of creativity and self-discovery. Emily talks about every creator's exhilarating highs and challenging lows, from the first spark of inspiration to the joy of a breakthrough. Our conversation reminds us that embracing uncertainty can lead to the most unexpected and fulfilling outcomes.
In this episode, we cover:
- How to lead with your artistic spirit in all areas of life, including parenting, business, and personal growth
- Aligning your life with your deepest values and expressing your passions freely
- Starting new creative practices as a way to find authenticity
- Embracing the beginner's mindset for artistic growth
- The unique challenges women face when stepping into their expertise
- The importance of asking insightful questions
Emily also shares how an artist's unique perspective can transform business leadership and strategic thinking. We discuss the role of "translators" in organizations, the courage to trust your intuition, and how to piece together new ideas for better solutions. Emily's story of her evolving career highlights the importance of embracing change and making the most of our time.
Join us for this inspiring conversation with Emily Ellen Anderson, and let's dive into her rich insights!
Connect with Emily
Website
Instagram
TikTok
Work with Emily
Download her free exploration workbook to help you visualize your dream art business/ life.
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Desire to find your Scenic Route? Visit jenniferwalter.me — a welcoming space for the emotionally exhausted to rest, discover, and playfully embrace inner peace. Embrace a softer, more fulfilling life today!
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Emily Ellen Anderson is an art business coach for artists looking to build profitable, long-lasting, satisfying businesses that support their soul. Emily became a certified life coach after noticing that her strategy clients struggled to build satisfying businesses through strategy and growth alone. Transformation they desired so much had more to do with claiming what they desired in life, becoming solid in their values, embracing life design and becoming a person who cultivates satisfaction and safety, especially during growth cycles. Emily, welcome to the Scenic Route podcast. Thank you.
Emily Ellen Anderson:I'm happy to be here.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, I'm really excited because when we first was planning up this conversation, I was like, oh, I mean, I, I'm a graphic designer, so I dabbled in art, let's say it, and I had hard history, art history, in school, but all of that didn't come to mind. What first came to mind was a book by Seth Godin that he wrote a couple of years ago. It's called the Icarus Deception. It talks about art, basically, and making art, and it's quite interesting. On the very first page he asks the question why you make art and he kind of says, well, because you must make, why you make art, and he kind of says, well, because you must. It's, yeah, it's just this dry, because you must. And then art is what it is to be human, yeah. So I'm like okay, are we all artists? What is your take on this?
Emily Ellen Anderson:yeah, I do think we're all artists. I think that, yeah, I think we're all artists. I mean, when you think back, when a little bit less, you know you're less inhibited to just throw something together. Yeah, I do think everybody is an artist and I think that we get.
Jennifer Walter:I mean, you know, as you get older, you just get stuck into but what are people are going to like and so we train ourselves out of being artists and becoming a conformist, totally yep yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the young about art, even when I see what my kid, what he puts together and it's like, yeah sure, I would never think of that, but hey, you're doing that, like, yeah, there's something to it that you're born ones who practice their art even when they're grown up. What? What can people who aren't pursuing their art, in whatever form? That is what. What can we learn from them?
Emily Ellen Anderson:yeah, well, I think that I think you're right in that artists are like compelled to make something, and I feel like that has to do something with like knowing where it's going to go in the end, just be willing to like kind of pull that thread and keep following it until it unfolds and reveals itself. So, um gosh, what, what everybody can learn from artists is that what you asked? Yeah, I think, um, one of the, you know, this is funny because even artists don't notice this particular thing, but I think everybody can learn. It happens in anything. Anytime. You're creating something from nothing, right? So a job, a relationship, whatever art um, there's like this emotional roller coaster where it's like I'm inspired, I'm ready, I'm gonna do it, and then there's just like this joy of acting on it and digging in, and then there's there might be like a part where the doing of it becomes really tedious, and then you get stuck and you're like, oh shit, now, now, I'm stuck, and then you like start judging yourself or start judging your circumstances.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Oh, yes, yes all of that, the little things in your head, yes, and then um, and then you get, and you're kind of down on yourself.
Emily Ellen Anderson:And then so artists that realize this happen usually like take a break, right, or get some distance, and they go do something, or they just surrender, right.
Emily Ellen Anderson:They're just like, okay, the thing that I expected is not reality, this isn't happening how I thought it was going to, it happening how I thought it was going to, and um, and then they leave it for a little while and become open or just totally so exhausted from being mad at themselves about it that they're just surrendered a little bit and then something like comes in right, like you read a poem, you read a, you listen to a podcast.
Emily Ellen Anderson:You're like, oh, okay, I know how I can continue with this, and then, and then you do something else and it becomes something else. And then you, at some point, you just decide it's complete and you're like, okay, I didn't know that's where we were gonna go, but here we and you can move on with your next cycle, right. So I think what people can learn is like and artists need to learn as well so they can be aware of when they're in it but like the creative process is not just those times where you're inspired and you're doing, and then it's finished. It's the whole trajectory right. It's the yeah and it's finished.
Jennifer Walter:It's the whole trajectory right. It's the yeah and it's not just the the oh. My god, this is so exciting, fresh part that we all know from projects, relationships, whatever. But when the field, when it kind of like gets tough or shit hit the fan and it's kind of like what your true colors will show, and we kind of like show okay, what, what are you made of?
Emily Ellen Anderson:right or or not, and like like maybe it's not in what you're made of, just like what will come to you, like what will come through you. You're hoping, so what's next? Or when you give up? Yeah, I see everything into what you thought it's gonna be I see.
Jennifer Walter:So I'd say, from listening to you, what we can learn from artists is living with the uncertainty. Yeah, because you start something. There is no blueprint, there is no template you have.
Emily Ellen Anderson:You just started from scratch, totally and you have the blank canvas, it's and the end like the, the feeling that it's always working like this part is supposed to be here. This is the part that is working as well. I just don't like this part as much, part as much way through this. So I mean also then, um, a very solid level of self-trust yeah, yeah, yeah, and not self-trust, as like I always know the answers. But I know that if I sit here long enough and am open and look for insensitive to all the things that could come through, then, then I know that something's going to happen and this will go somewhere that's really.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, I mean that's totally like a way of life and a way to see things. Yeah, I thought it was interesting what you also said, that you are very in like invested with artists, are very invested with what they're doing yeah um to I mean border obsession.
Jennifer Walter:But you said there's a point I'm kind of paraphrasing where you kind of have to let it go, where you have to detach when you're stuck, especially when you're stuck that you just have to like, okay, I, I know, I know, but I'm not seeing the way or the next step it's gotta take. So I have to step back and like, detach from it, even though it's my art, and see what will. What will happen? Will the art become something? I mean, art is deeply personal, I think. Is there a point where the art becomes like its own persona?
Emily Ellen Anderson:Totally yeah, I think so and I think, like different artists will have different um, oh god, I mean different artists have different techniques and whatever.
Jennifer Walter:Like I mean right part that's the game?
Emily Ellen Anderson:yeah, I think so, and I think detaching is one where I think some people will like be in line with the idea of just holding it more gently and rather than pushing it away, but just holding in a different way.
Jennifer Walter:How can we, how can we don't want to say non-artists, but how can people who are not really trained in holding it differently, how can that look like? Because I feel this is such a good way of all aspects of life or business, whenever you feel, oh, I need to push through, I need to push through with my kid, in parenting my kid, I need to push through with my business, blah, blah, blah, blah. How can we hold something more gently? What are the things? Are the, the shifts or the practical tools that you recommend?
Emily Ellen Anderson:let's see, I think that when you're thinking about holding something gently, it's a it's, you're holding something you're like okay, I thought. I thought that things were going to go this a certain way and they're not right now, and maybe I was wrong about a lot of things in this situation. Maybe a lot of the, the places that I thought we were going to go with this it's not, it wasn't where we were ever going to go, and so I think, like in terms of um, holding something more gently, you can start to detangle what was important about that. So why you started in the first place, right, why you started in the first place, what this kind of reminds me of, like um, just just like claiming your desire or what's important to you in the first place or what your values are. I think um are, I think some people don't, they're not as solid in what those are, and so in so, part of the holding something gently is being able to step back and and look at what's really important to you. But some people don't know what those are yet.
Emily Ellen Anderson:And I think that this reminds me of I a therapist I used to have, where he would ask me a bunch of questions and my first response was like, well, I don't know, this is this is what I wanted, and it's not happening. And I kept saying I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, and he would just not say anything and just wait for me to keep talking, and then I would always say the part that I knew after that, right, and so he's like Emily, you can just like pause and then say what you do know about it and it will be true. And I think, like I think, when we're holding something onto something so tight, we want, we want to believe, we want to believe that where we wanted to go was right.
Emily Ellen Anderson:And so we don't see it as whatever wasteful time or disappointment or yeah, yeah, and I think that we can just kind of yeah, just detangle and see what's around it, I feel like in terms of like finding finding values and see what's really important to you. You can, I think. I think women especially are like still stuck with like what should be happening or like what things should look like, and instead of giving themselves that pause and being like okay, like what actually is, what is true here, what's true?
Jennifer Walter:do you have a favorite way, or how did you for yourself work out what are my true values, or what are my values?
Emily Ellen Anderson:what is my north star, whatever you want to call it, I think that, um, something actually recently happened where I had like a coach friend over and we were just talking about business and where we wanted to take business stuff and um, and she was looking at my house and she was like, emily, do you think that maybe you want to be an artist?
Emily Ellen Anderson:And I was just like I was like oh shit.
Emily Ellen Anderson:And I was like that like hit me so deep and it was like clear and, um, just very like solid and deep, and I was like, oh shit, I think I do, like why have I never seen this before?
Emily Ellen Anderson:And I think for me, like those types of knowing things happen when, when it is like clear and then something that's that feels very deep in the body as opposed to something that is very like up in my head and urgent and hasn't even now. And I think, like when you are, when you were talking about holding something tightly, like that feels up in the head too and that feels very urgent and oh, I need it, yeah yeah, where, like, the true things almost don't even have a timeline associated with them, right, you're like, oh shoot, I do think I want to develop an art practice for myself and here I've been doing all this other stuff and helping artists, which I love to do and will continue to do. But now I'm like, oh well, this is really inconvenient, now that I have to follow my own truth somehow and try to take your own medicine.
Jennifer Walter:Interesting totally oh, how annoying no, but it brings us to a very good topic because, as you said, like we, we both believe everyone's kind of like born an artist, that it kind of like gets trained out of ourselves. The way in we see the world is like gets into right or wrong boxes. Yeah, and I sometimes, when I talk to my clients about hobbies, I get like blank stares, yes, and then they're like I like to read and I'm like that's good for you. Like, yeah, I mean reading is a great hobby, but is there also something you make? Is there anything you create? Yeah, and then they're like, uh, no, and often people are like, oh, I, I would like to do something, but it almost feels overwhelming to start. Which brings me to you where you shared oh I, I want to start establishing and cultivating my art practice. Yeah, how can we go about this? How can we start?
Emily Ellen Anderson:yeah, um, I can tell you how I'm starting. And, yes, I and it is, it is totally a dose of my own medicine. It's funny because, like, I feel like I have seen, I've seen, I mean people, my artists, are well beyond. I mean, they are doing, you know, selling big works and doing big installations and and so I and they're having problems like coming to a boardroom table and and feeling solid in their, in their own values when they go in and try to negotiate prices, or even prices, but, um, and so I'm like, oh, I got that, like I can help you with that, but, um, but they're well ahead of me but what they have figured out or you're figuring out now, yes, exactly so for me.
Emily Ellen Anderson:I have one of those situations where it's like I have a young family and I have my coaching business and there is like realistically a very small pocket of time that I can start developing something. But if I don't use that, that then we'll never get anywhere. So it's making it important to right now take those scraps of time and make them into something that's useful.
Emily Ellen Anderson:So right now it's like, honestly, it's probably like eight hours a month, I can make something for myself, or that's a full day, totally, yeah, it's a full day or two, you know two big chunks, which is good and um, and for me it's just like, okay, I'm doing painting and I'm doing ceramics and I have um, and I don't have that.
Emily Ellen Anderson:I don't have the skills yet to in ceramics, to even be able to do something in my head. So it's like I want a, I wanted to try to make this shape. I couldn't like figure out a way where I can get something that looks smooth in the shape that I want. And, um, right now for painting, it's just like I want to find a way to work with colors that doesn't make me gross out at myself, like I'm just trying to find what I like and um, and so, yeah, it's actually funny, like you mentioned, like what are your hobbies? And right now I'm in the position where I'm like what do I like? Like what I can, I know what kind of art that I like in other people and I know what.
Jennifer Walter:But that might not necessarily be the art you enjoy making.
Emily Ellen Anderson:No, and there's definitely a style that if I'm just drawing or painting then I will move into just naturally, and so it's really just trying to get the quantity up where some kind of pattern emerges, and then with the ceramics it's just once I can get a shape that I like, then I can um, I have some ideas on like um, like women's bodies and tree shapes merging into, into things. I'm like I'd really love to be able to, to make something that at least like hints at what I have or explore this, or just explores this idea huh, so it's totally exploration.
Emily Ellen Anderson:It's funny you brought up seth godin, because there's another book that I love. I think it's even older and it's like a super thin book, but it is, oh my gosh. I think it's something like um, what are you gonna do when it's your time, and it's always your time, or something like that.
Jennifer Walter:But oh, which sounds like very much like a theft god in title.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Yeah, yeah, totally brilliant, but yeah yeah, and pretty much the whole um. The whole book is how to be an amateur, like a throbbing amateur at something, and having having the reader realize that, like before, you're a master at anything, you're going to feel very stupid at something and you just have to keep feeling stupid at something until you have a level of capability.
Jennifer Walter:Yes, which is also probably gets harder the older we get, because we don't like to feel stupid, because at one point in our lives we detached very bad memories with that and also, yeah, it's just nothing to be in our society, it's nothing to be desired to be, don't know to be new at something everyone wants like. Even when you look at job job descriptions, people would have like a 20 year old with 10 year experience in like five disciplines and she's like, wow, it's not gonna happen.
Emily Ellen Anderson:That's a really good point, because I I coach mainly women and I was trying to think of, like some, some similarities between, um, somebody who's not an artist, what they might deal with, and then what an artist deals with.
Emily Ellen Anderson:And there's a similar thing among women where, um, they don't want to say that they know something for sure, like they don't want to be like I am an expert in this and I can figure this out and um, and similar to like I don't want to say that I know something because I might not know it and then I'm gonna look like a fool yeah, I'm gonna get called out or yeah, but in those types of situations like well, well, there's always something you do know, and probably one of them is like I'm the type of person where if I don't know, I I'm gonna know something and I'm gonna know what questions to ask in order to find people to be something, to get, to find a solution yes, and if, if you're listening and you're ever questioning whether you do know, please like, believe me, if you're listening to these podcasts, you do know like you're smart enough, you know like, otherwise you would have been long gone totally.
Jennifer Walter:And I know my people, they're like, they don't they, yeah, um, it's so and it's. It's really interesting, right, because you said, like you, you have to set time aside to figure out what you like. Yeah, and that just like brought me back to my kid is now turning five this summer and it really brought me back to like two years ago when he was like turning three and the chunks of time got slowly bigger. Yeah, you would play five more minutes by yourself, or just like. It just just tiny stretches got bigger and bigger.
Jennifer Walter:And I had to to really rediscover what I like, because a lot of the things like I wouldn't say the values shifted per se, but there was less. I was less willing to compromise, I was less willing to like, less willing to like take up with it just for the sake of whatever I'm like man, I actually don't really like this or I actually do like this and yeah, I had to start really small like, like you said, like in your case, taking out colors and just color. I don't know. Yeah, shapes, circles, strokes that's yeah.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Like literally whenever I start, I'm like, oh, I hate feeling like I'm starting from scratch, but it's the process that's necessary.
Jennifer Walter:Is this? Yes, we know it's necessary, we know it's the process and still, like we know, we have to move through this discomfort. Like what is your like best kept secret.
Emily Ellen Anderson:On moving through discomfort when starting something new I just think of, like, designing your life right, like we get fed or served up, like this is what your life can look like when you have this kind of job and this kind of family structure, and these are your options, and then you can go on vacations and you can, you know, go to to the, get a cocktail with your friends, and, um, it's going to be great. And I think, like, just once you start traveling and once you start looking at all the different ways you can be a person or live a life, and and um, and all the different ways that something that you, like you know right in, so you can just start thinking about. I don't know what. What I think about is just like I definitely want, don't want to get to the end of my life and regret not having tried, and I also don't want to start trying when I'm 80 and have time.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, but that is granted, that you make it to 80, which is not right. I mean not being pessimistic, but I mean we just don't know. And if you save something up for whenever I mean, and this is not just for age, right If you I don't know say if you're good clothes for the good moment, or if you say feeling good about yourself when you look a certain way, yeah, you're missing out. Such a fucking waste honey.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Yeah and yeah. Like if you're always going to have a challenge and you're always going to have hardship, like what kind of hardships would you like to choose? That's where I'm like trying to get somewhere and trying to make something out of my life. That sounds juicy.
Jennifer Walter:Yes, it definitely sounds more intriguing than the immediate discomfort Right, than the immediate discomfort right. But but again, we're holding away that everything that is immediate, it has more urgency or more meaning, more is just more present in our minds than anything long term.
Emily Ellen Anderson:totally you you brought on like sorry, I'll buy the difference, and like, is it up here coming from my hand? Yes, we need to do it now. Like those are clues on, like okay, like let me think about this. It's just, I don't need to do it this way, I don't have to do it in this amount of time, like I have options, and I think, like being satisfied with your life is just always making sure that you know what the options are and that you're choosing the ones that you want to do.
Jennifer Walter:You brought up an interesting point before that. I want to explore a bit more Safety. Right, you said, okay, we need to feel safe or some form of safety to move through this cycle of I have no idea what I'm doing, this entire roller coaster of creating art, yeah, um, well, I think I once. That reminds me. I think I once read a, a quote. Oh, I have no idea, but I hope it is now. But it's kind of like the three necessary components to becoming an artist is seeing, making and the tabula rasa, just like the whole ups and downs roller coaster, whatever or not. But I mean back to safety. My mind does this sometimes, okay. So so we need to feel a certain level of safety, which is deeply personal to each and every one of us, to be able to create freely. Yeah, I'd say right, because if you, if you're under I don't know, I don't know how to pay your bills at the end of the month, it probably feels especially hard to draw a colored circle and decide which one you like best.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Totally, or decide that that's the best use of your time is to draw the circle. Yeah, yeah, I think there's like there's financial safety and like the facts, the cold hard facts of like is there enough money or not. And then there's all of like the future, anxiety of like will there be enough money, mm-hmm, happy. And then there's like the safety of like emotional safety or like self-talk, right, like, if I, if this doesn't work out, am I gonna be an asshole to myself or am I gonna make this be a giant failure if this doesn't work out? If I don't, if I try this and I take a risk and it doesn't work out, am I gonna, um, if I am, I gonna make myself unsafe in doing that? So, like, with this, I mean and there is a lot of, uh, financial risk for a lot of the artists I work with um, what I end up doing, which is not an easy sell, but we do like look at their money and we project what their life costs, which a lot of them haven't even done, haven't done this and then we um figure out what, like the business they're trying to build, what that costs, and then we have a real look at, like what they need to make and that will usually change like, be, like. Oh my gosh, I have to like make in a totally different way if I'm going to be a person who can be supported by my art to cover all of this in a way that would make me feel safe. But in doing that process, they have outlined what financial safety needs for them.
Emily Ellen Anderson:While they're going about building your art, however long that, whatever timeline they want to put on that, then there is a concrete thing that they can look at and be like I feel unsafe. Well, am I unsafe? Like, oh no, I'm actually making progress towards this thing that I'm doing. Like, of course, your brain is going to tell you any business thing is unsafe. Anything, any risk is going to be unsafe. But, um, you can. You can then look back and be like is that true? Am I unsafe right now, or am I just spinning this out of control into a bunch of scenarios that may or may have happened? My brain is busy, yeah oh, what do you think?
Jennifer Walter:can there be like a point where an artist feels like tooth safe, you know, where it kind of like stifles, stifles their growth, or or just like, maybe you know I haven't had too many artists bring that up, but I imagine, if you know what, though?
Emily Ellen Anderson:no, they, they get bored. I think they know that they get bored with some things, and so I don't think I've found anybody that is in danger. I'm feeling too safe, feeling too safe, but I think that they, I think artists, will tend to put themselves on another level of risk, because that's what they like to do, like risk in terms of, like, pushing a new kind of project or exploring a new technique or medium or concept.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, so they really so. Artists really don't like boredom yeah.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, when I tend to get bored. My head has this nasty tendency to create drama, to like blow shit out of proportion. So I'm not feeling bored again, I know. I know I should do something else with that Stories. Maybe I should get play or something. Yeah, that would even be more practical than just to get an entire pottery studio, which I don't have the space for, but I do like a pottery wheel, yep, which I don't have the space for, but I do like a pottery wheel. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's truly interesting how, when we say art, yeah, like art, to make art or to be an artist is human. And have we seen so many traits of how we deal with uncertainty or detachment, surrender?
Emily Ellen Anderson:We have so many parallels of how we can hold ourselves as artists, or how we can see ourselves as artists, yeah, and how we can learn from them, yeah, I really see artists as like, um, and really I mean, there are people who are not artists, running businesses or doing things in their life, who think, like artists, right, this isn't, this, isn't this, this isn't like you make art and therefore you're an artist.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Like there are artistic every.
Emily Ellen Anderson:It's a way of being right, right, but I think like, uh, in a lot of ways, it's just people that are highly sensitive and see connections and see ways that things can be blended and merged and fused and and taken apart and broken down and put back together again.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Um, and so, like artists, I feel like, are, you know, here's like society all moving in a circle and doing things, and then artists are able to almost like document and the feelings, like document the feelings of community when they're happening and, um, put them in a form that people can understand and then, um, yeah, I think it's a really important part of society where I would love to you know, in my vision, is like there's this important role of documenting and and expressing and um, and then money is given to these artists to buy their art and then they put that money back into, you know, their creative process and being inspired and, um, and looking again and being able to take a new connection and make it visible for for people. So it's kind of a connected thing no, but it's really beautiful.
Jennifer Walter:I love what he said like artists, like document, how we collectively feel. Yeah, that's very beautifully put. So if we want to train or cultivate the artistic side of us, I feel, in order to document, the prerequisite for documenting is seeing, is seeing the world in a special kind of way. Yeah, how have we learned to see like an artist?
Emily Ellen Anderson:I think it's a feeling thing. I think it's like a loop of like feeling something, putting something on, making something visible with the least amount of judgment as possible, and then observing and then changing it or not, and then doing it over again. So I think if you're going to become like an artist, then you can think about everything. You can kind of detangle, like I said, if we're seeing what, we can kind of merge with it or blend or take apart, and you can kind of look at anything and be like what can we do with this? What if we tried putting this together in a different way?
Jennifer Walter:and then just observing and on repeat forever. I love this and I think it's something that is truly needed not, I mean, in our society as a whole, because we've done things for a while now and look at that turned out it's peachy for a lot of us and so we need to do things differently. I think this is I mean, this is clear for everyone, like at least in my bubble so we need to do things differently and we need to look at the things and like detached from their previous meanings and see if, is this useful, can this be useful? And how we can put it back together in a way that serves us.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Better was better, and I think there's also like there's some of these key people that are really good at hearing what different people say, and and and and. Saying it in a different way, like helping, um, how many? Helping it be articulated in a different way, like translators almost translators.
Emily Ellen Anderson:They're like translator people in the world who are like, if you have so let's say, you have just a normal organization and um, and you have an artist, and they are a feeling type of person and they just kind of like blurt something out or or, or they have some kind of courage allows them to be like hey, I'm noticing this happening and like I don't like it or it feels weird, or I feel like we should do something different. And then a translator can be like, okay, let's like slow down and not just throw this under the table. It's not important. Like let's not dismiss this, but let's see what's here. If we like let's hear more of what you're saying and see what. See what do here. I'm thinking of like.
Emily Ellen Anderson:One example is I was interning when I was in my early 20s for the. It was called the Seattle Arts Commission when I was in it, but I was an intern, so I just was sitting there and the head of the company was like what ideas could we have that make this city more of an art city? And I was just like, well, let's just like take all the government and put them on the moon. And then's like, okay, well, that's really interesting, what if there was more artists in like positions of authority and leadership, like what would that look like and how would we train somebody to do that and how would we find people that have that capacity or interest? And I was just like, whoa, that's cool. It's cool that that's what you made with that, where I was just blurting a feeling out yeah, this brings me like this.
Jennifer Walter:this reminded me a lot of of my agency days when, I mean, I I'm a designer, I'm a trained, but I'm also a sociologist, so I was often that translator role of talking with the designers and then going over to the strategy people and be like, listen, we can all work together on this. Designers are not feeling this and it really is a skill and, yeah, maybe, maybe every business should have like an on-call artist.
Emily Ellen Anderson:there you go and that's really cool. Yeah, and the challenge with the artist is going to be like I can't articulate why, but I know this strongly, I know this strongly and if we could just slow down for a second and look at this in a different way, then I think it will be better. And so just having the courage to be able to say that is a big leadership step, oh God, yes. And then having a team, I mean the strategist, and then for the translator, for the person, that role that you were in, the hard part for them is once you go into the strategist, and if they have like more power in the company, they'd be like, oh, that's a little bit unreasonable, and we'll like slow down the timeline and budget stuff and blah, blah, blah and so we can't do that, sorry, and so yeah, on kind of no, it would be yeah, yeah, I mean it would need different levels of working together, different like no hierarchies, for sure.
Jennifer Walter:But it's interesting, right like sometimes, if, if you ever feel stuck with whatever you're doing, yeah, maybe take on the artist's gaze or artist approach and be like, okay, this is not working. Let's take everything apart, let's see which of these pieces I like or don't like and let's see if we can put them together in a new way that I like, better, like, say more, better, and see what happens.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Yeah, like, oh, we were really focused on this. Like, what are we missing? What are we not looking at? Because we were so focused on this, which obviously is not working? What are we not seeing here?
Jennifer Walter:Which, like as you've've said, this happens to every one of us. You didn't see that you, you, you're one of your bodies, your desire is to become an artist.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Like sometimes the things are, oh yeah, we don't really. And then it was so clear. It's like, oh, I've had my full life, I have a sculpture degree in a landscape architecture degree and I mean, that's like, girl, come on, like I know. Well, I was like, oh, I'll do public art because I'm really uncomfortable, um, having my own idea. And like, just because, like, I need a client to tell me what they, you know what they need, and I need a place to put it in. And um, I feel you, yes, yeah. And and then you know all of these companies.
Emily Ellen Anderson:I have been a leader of a company where I hire other artists and I just hold them all together and we all do, we all make things together, and um, and then during covid, that that was illegal to do events and so we stopped doing that business. And then I'm like, okay, well, I'll train artists because I know how to make a business with, I know how to make a creative business and I can, I know how to train other people to do that. And so I'm like, okay, I'll be a coach. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I've been skirting around this forever.
Jennifer Walter:But I mean, we're on a scenic road podcast, so I mean, there you go, welcome to the club. This is what we do. This is life. You know the everyone listening. This is this is life. It happens to all of us that we detour and detour and but we're like are you enjoying the journey, are you? Yeah? So see, that's what it's all about ensuring that there's destiny. Enjoying, enjoying your destination too, but most importantly, enjoying the journey, because if the journey to the destination is shit, destination might be too. So also.
Emily Ellen Anderson:I mean, the destination is going to change, so it's always going to be a journey.
Jennifer Walter:Thank you very much. I could not have looked for a better, a better way to end this podcast. Yes, absolutely, you're right, emily. So before I let you go, where can people find you?
Emily Ellen Anderson:Where can people, when people want to work with you, let me know where you're online? Yeah, I think probably best place is instagram, is just emilyellenanderson, um, and that's my website too, emilyellenandersoncom perfect, okay, and you got a little something with us the art dream business exploration sheet.
Jennifer Walter:You want to tell me quickly something about it? Great.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Great. That is just a series of questions. If people are like, what do I want to do, Like what do? What kind of life do I want to build, this is just a series of exploration questions where you can maybe get a little closer to figuring out what that is.
Jennifer Walter:Oh, I'm all about explorative questions. One last question before I let you off the hook what book are you currently reading or what audiobook are you currently listening to?
Emily Ellen Anderson:dang good question. So I'm reading two books. I usually have ten, but right now I have two.
Jennifer Walter:I'm usually also between six and seven, but yeah, sure ten.
Emily Ellen Anderson:Hagnning Haggitude by blackney. Do you know this one? No, it's, um, it was recommended to me, uh, just because I met with somebody from the event industry that I left during covid and um, just the idea of this, like whole industry just going away and this feeling of grief and unmoored ness and like what nags the uncertainty and um has to do a lot with, like perimenopause and menopause and what happens in your later, the later part of your life. So it's called haggitude. It's like totally steeped in old folklore and really good, ooh. And then it's when I'm reading yeah, so that sounds interesting. She's a poet too, so she's just lovely to listen to.
Emily Ellen Anderson:And then the other one is called Otherlands, by Thomas Halliday, and he's a paleontologist and he describes extinct worlds, past worlds I mean earth world, like past versions of earth that have gone extinct, and he writes about them as if you're in them and it's happening. Oh, it's very interesting, it makes you feel very impermanent. And then, oh, if you want anything to like get you your desire in life, read that book, because you're like, oh, my god, like we've been here like for a millisecond of time and our life is very precious and short and we just should be just doing whatever we want again, you're serving a perfect line as to end this conversation, emily.
Jennifer Walter:thank you so much for being on the scenic route with me. Thank you.
