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Scenic Route
Life's one helluva ride — why not enjoy the view?
The Scenic Route Podcast is your audio chill pill, serving up mindset shifts, laughs, and 'aha!' moments that fuel your soul and your wallet.
We're all about:
- Finding purpose (without the fluff)
- Embracing the soft life (because hustle culture is so last season)
- Real talk (sugar-coating? Not around here)
- Actionable insights (for when you're ready)
- Daring convos (we go there, babes)
- Building resilience (without the toxic positivity)
- Mindfulness for real people (with real problems)
Whether you're feeling lost and emotionally exhausted, hiding from your kids in the bathroom, need a break from the chaos, or want to zen out, we've got you covered.
Join Jennifer Walter, sociologist (MASoc UCC) and pathfinder, on this journey to inner peace — with a generous side of potty humour.
Ready to care less about others' BS and more about your own bliss? Hop on The Scenic Route. Trust us, the view up here is *chef's kiss*.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Your next chill session awaits. You coming?
Scenic Route
The Realities of Motherhood: Mom Guilt, Relationships, and Emotional Intelligence with Shayla Varnado
I wish I'd heard this conversation five years ago when I was struggling with postpartum depression after having my son...
Step into the world of Shayla Varnado, founder of Black Girls Wine, as she bares her soul about the intricate dance of balancing motherhood and entrepreneurship. In this heartfelt episode, Shayla opens up about the complexities of raising children while building a business, the importance of prioritizing self-care, and the silent struggles of new mothers.
Join us as we navigate through:
- The serenity and storms of parenting
- Nurturing emotionally intelligent children
- Finding harmony in relationships during the chaotic baby years
- Addressing mom guilt and seeking support
- The physical and emotional toll of postpartum life
- The impact of motherhood on personal identity and intimate relationships
- Societal pressures and mom shaming
- The bittersweet symphony of parenting highs and lows
Shayla's candidness and bravery in discussing these often unspoken topics remind us all that embracing our vulnerabilities and seeking support is okay. We also dive into her growth from the unplugged moments of motherhood, her thriving digital marketing career, and her personal development journey through thoughtful literature and navigating the trials of potty training.
Don't miss Shayla Varnado's inspiring story for a dose of real talk peppered with laughter and solidarity. This episode is a beacon for those traversing the unpredictable paths of personal growth, entrepreneurship, and the essence of motherhood. Tune in for an unforgettable conversation!
Connect with Shayla
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Work with Shayla
FREE Strategy Discovery Call
Use Code: SCENIC at https://stan.store/shaylavarnado
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Desire to find your Scenic Route? Visit jenniferwalter.me — a welcoming space for the emotionally exhausted to rest, discover, and playfully embrace inner peace. Embrace a softer, more fulfilling life today!
For snapshots from Jennifer's scenic route to a softer life come over to
PICK YOUR SCENIC ROUTE AFFIRMATION
Ready to embrace your Scenic Route? Step off the beaten path with the Scenic Route Affirmation Card Deck. It's not about the hustle; it's about finding the courage to trust your inner compass and carve a path that's authentically yours.
Tap into your inner wisdom and let it guide you.
👉 Discover Your Scenic Route Affirmation Card
Curious about what insights await you today? Dive in and let your scenic journey unfold, one affirmation at a time.
SHOW SOME LOVE
If you found value in today's episode, I would appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review and help me share the soft life message.
From business and marketing strategies for entrepreneurs with soul to loving on her family and to planning the ultimate wine travel experience for women. As the founder of Black Girls Wine, shayla Bernardo is the bestie we all needed. She keeps us updated on the latest to try and buy and she's very generous in dropping a little knowledge along the way. Shayla, welcome to the City. Groud podcast.
Jennifer Walter:Thank you for having me podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited because when I got to know you and lorette about you, I'm like, okay, this, this lady's life bio, whatever, like biopic. It could be called a scenic route. There is almost nothing that I have done yet and there's still so much left to do. So, shayla, what does scenic route mean for you? What was the pivotal moments looking back so far?
Shayla Varnado:Oh, that's a scripture in the Bible verses around talents and gifts and utilizing all of your talents and gifts. It's a parable in the book of Matthew. Right, I've read a note, to be honest, but you tell me, so I believe.
Shayla Varnado:Yeah, so it is, and so what the scenic route means to me is like it really has been a journey of me exploring all of my talents and gifts and putting them all to use and using everything inside of me. I feel like my brief time in corporate. I was like, oh my God, I'm miserable, and I also realized that, like I am so much more than this, like, yes, I can answer a phone and, yes, I can handle some claims and I can do some inspections, but none of that is really using any of the gifts and talents that I have. I'm such a creative. I love I love the camera, which I discovered as an adult building brands, I love being on camera and I love putting on a face. I love helping people with their marketing. I love drinking wine and helping people grow their palate, and so my journey has kind of been it's been the ebbs and flows of like using my gifts to serve other people.
Jennifer Walter:Oh, I love this approach of really leading with your gifts and talents first and then kind of like beefed it into the city ground and see where it goes. What you said like you see yourself as a very creative person. Was there another? What was the another? Like maybe surprising gift or talent you discovered along the way, and what was something you were absolutely shit at doing that did not work out at all.
Shayla Varnado:That's a really good question. So, surprisingly, when I first started building Black Girls Wine, I decided about a year into it to start going live. And I went live every week on Wednesdays at 8.30 for four years, and so a lot of people discovered me that way and I was nervous as crap when I first started. I did not. I'm telling you, it was my mom and my husband and my dad and my sister on my very first live. And so now when I meet people or I see people in the street or I'm like talking to the money in the wine industry, they're like oh my God, I loved your show and I was like wow, you watched it.
Shayla Varnado:I didn't think I was going to be great at it. I didn't know what to expect. I hated public speaking in college. When I took it I was so uninterested in it, and so it has actually made me a much better speaker. I have a lot more confidence, even if I don't necessarily know where a topic or conversation or like if it's a panel interview, like even though you never know how those things turn out. I feel more confident because of my four years in front of the camera of me just kind of trying it out. Something that I was really shitty at was running a product-based business and a subscription box. Oh, okay, yeah, I have a feelings of running a product-based business, but the subscription box I hate going to the post office trying to wrangle all of this stuff in a box and the crazy thing is, like the box did well, it was growing and I was like I don't do this anymore so I shut it down but I mean really kudos to you for shutting, for shutting something down because it doesn't didn't feel aligned anymore.
Shayla Varnado:It was it was. It was hard like I found myself every single month at the last second, like at the post office, packing boxes and tissues everywhere and trying to tape them and then carry these, all of these boxes, and I'm like I know there's an easier way to do it, but I don't even have capacity to figure it out like I just don't.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah yeah, that's the thing, right. Once you kind of like realize, okay, this shit ain't for me, it doesn't even matter, like you probably could have hired three people to help you easily, but then I don't know what. Then suddenly you have three employees of a business you don't like and you're responsible for them too, and it's just like more honest this way. If you feel like, nah, I gotta pull the plug you feel like, nah, I gotta pull the plug.
Shayla Varnado:Yeah, I had to and I think it was really good practice because eventually I ended up having to pull the plug on Black Girls Line Society and that business, you know was that membership. It was wildly successful but motherhood called and I couldn't anymore and it was made me sad to shut it down. That I did grieve having the sunset, that business, but it was nothing that I could do. I was nine months into postpartum and it was rough, so I think it was the preparation I needed to be able to make that decision really confidently. I feel like I still don't know what the ultimate destination looks like, or even if there is an ultimate destination, maybe it will always be.
Shayla Varnado:Life is about enjoying the route, because it is the yeah and that, wherever destiny takes you and where it takes you, but you gotta enjoy the ride.
Jennifer Walter:Yes, if you've been here for a couple of episodes this. You heard me preaching this over and over again, so I'm really happy shayla is telling you this too. Um, listen, if you're, if you're hating on the journey, that whatever destination you will reach most likely will suck balls too. Like it's it, it's just not. Life is so short, and if we're having a like, if we have to push ourselves and having a really hard time just to get a step, step, one step after the other, like, why bother it's hard and I know like some seasons are just hard.
Shayla Varnado:I will say that I do understand. I do understand if somebody is like 100. It took me a while post baby wrestling with the fact that I was a mom and not knowing what that, what would come, what would become of I don't want to say me, but just like what that looked like. Like. What is juggling business? What does?
Jennifer Walter:Shayla as a. As a way the baby looks like mom Shayla.
Shayla Varnado:How does mom Shayla do everything that non-mom Shayla was doing, but only more like? How does that happen? And I did. I struggled after I had my son trying to like find my way. I was falling in love with this little human, but hating the fact that I was no longer me. Oh, I can so relate.
Jennifer Walter:Yes, you're speaking out of my heart, for sure. It was hard. It was hard.
Shayla Varnado:Oh God, yeah, I mean anybody who's listening, I get it.
Jennifer Walter:I mean, my kid is five, five.
Shayla Varnado:Now I don't know how old is your son, or two he is two, he's amazing and he's so like, he's growing so fast and just I don't know I was. It took me probably almost a year to get to the point that I was like, okay, I have to just like accept that this is my life now and I have to figure out, like, how this works and then I just have to change the way that I work and I have to change the way that I show up. But this is an amazing little human is here and I got to appreciate it. But it was hard at first and I'm so glad to hear you say, like you, it was hard at first and I'm so glad to hear you say, like you, you get it because a lot of moms have a hard time saying that.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, it's interesting, right? We often hear uh touch on subjects that I don't know. The conventional, the conventional way would be to look the other way. Um, but I don't know. I feel there's so much shame involved in how we like, how how we see ourselves to be mothers, how our partners, how our family has. Society sees us as mother's kettle, whatever, and the more we don't talk about it, the more it stays in the shadows, the easier it is for shame to fester and grow. And we can't deal with shame. We just got to be done with this. It's not helping us.
Shayla Varnado:Yeah, that's one thing that I look after years of therapy I have. That's something that I'm like I'm not feeling ashamed for anything. That I feel I'm a human being and I'm entitled to feel what I feel. Yeah, so I had to find my like tribe after having a baby because I was like I need people who will keep it real with me, like. This is not always easy and I'm not not very brief backstory my husband and I have been together for over a decade. We never planned to have children. He was my son was a surprise. He was a surprise miracle. They told me it wouldn't happen and so when we got pregnant, it was like what?
Jennifer Walter:What's happening? What is this sick telling me?
Shayla Varnado:He's like this can't be right. And sure enough, my doctor was like oh no girl, all the cysts are gone.
Jennifer Walter:It's not the little baby in there like excuse me, can you run the test again please?
Shayla Varnado:you like girl, you that this is never real, and so I am I. One thing that's really important to me, like in telling my story, is being really honest about it, because I want any mother to know like it's okay, I didn't get into this necessarily wanting it. Now I absolutely love it and it's a lot of fun and. But at first I was like shit, I did not. This is what I signed up for.
Jennifer Walter:Oh my god, I'm like are we living parallel lives? I don't know, it is very sappy, same. We have a partner, we've been together for years and I mean I had my son at 35. And until the age of 34, I was like'm never gonna have kids like this. That like we like I don't know. And then suddenly the conversations were like you know, we will have a great life whether we have kids or not. It will just be different. And then, like huh, you know, maybe we just see what happens if we try, because you don't know how long trying is going to last you anyway. And then I don't know, it was like the second cycle and I'm like, if I do my math correct, I think I'm late. So I'm like, okay, sure, okay, so it seems like we're gonna do this way.
Jennifer Walter:Um, and I was kind of like the last one in my circle to have a baby. The others, like, were already on, like baby two, or had, or stop, a baby one. Um, so I I got some of the horror stories. No, I mean there are horror stories. I mean there's blood and gore and there's no other way to tell it. It's a horror story. And I'm thankful for that, because in my mind I was kind of preparing myself for battle in a way, you know, like I knew this time will be like challenging. But boy, I didn't know, I did not know shit listen, listen.
Shayla Varnado:I having kids is a whirlwind, and one of the things that was hard for me to get used to was the fact that everything is unpredictable. I've accepted it now. It's a part of my life and I'm OK with it.
Shayla Varnado:Yes, but we need other structures if our life is unpredictable, when I say because it could be oh, you're sick because you were in the daycare and now the four calls I have scheduled for today have to be moved, because life is very unpredictable, yes, and so that was scary to me. I will say some of the horror stories I heard. I didn't end up having horror stories of my own and I'm very grateful for that, because I have friends who have some horror stories and I was already like the video they show you in the classes when you're pregnant. Refuse to watch the video. I refuse. I'm not taking that in, I don't want it. It I don't. I refuse. Yeah, she was like get into the birthing part. No, thank you.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, don't go placenta, or like diameters or like.
Shayla Varnado:I refuse. She started showing the video and I was like, okay, I'm going to go and fix myself some food now I'm done.
Jennifer Walter:Fair enough. Yes, fair enough.
Shayla Varnado:I mean, denial is a wonderful thing, Listen, and I'm so glad because I had a great experience. My soul was born to Beyonce playing in a war room.
Jennifer Walter:Oh okay, that is nice. Yeah, it was lovely, but we kind of had to go from let's see what's going to happen to oh, you're probably in a pre-Klemse state so we probably should get this baby out. Oh okay, it was all the fun. It was all the fun, but I'm curious how it was for you or how it is for you. We said already said it's a whirlwind, it might be a horror story. It's a lot of fun, it's challenging, it's all the things and more. And that's I don't know part of why I love it, because some of the unpredictability is like, yes, I'm living off this. Some of the unpredictability is like, yes, I'm living off this, but I don't know I wasn't prepared how much of my own shit would come up, and especially in relations to with my parents. Look, or how I've been raised. I've been raised and like how I am now in a position where I almost have to reparent myself too while I parent a little kid, and it's wild.
Shayla Varnado:What was the major things that were stirred for you with the birth of your kid like? So, everything that you explained I experienced as well. I knew that I wanted to parent my son differently. Um, oh, you're one of the circle breakers.
Jennifer Walter:Yes, yeah, we're the circle breakers. Go shut it up.
Shayla Varnado:I wanted, it was really important to me to raise a son who is not just, uh, emotionally aware, but emotionally intelligent, who knows how to articulate himself and what he's feeling. He understands that he has options. Anger is one emotion. It does not cover frustration, disappointment, resentment yeah, and or resentment, like there's so many other words, and if you learn how to communicate effectively, people can understand that and understand where you are and you can move forward.
Shayla Varnado:I wanted it's really important to me that my son is emotionally regulated, that he isn't a man who overreacts or goes to anger because he is experiencing something else and doesn't know how to express it, and I wanted to be a safe space for him, that whatever he was feeling, he could come to me and I'm not going to shut him down, I'm not going to discount his experience because it's not like mine. I read something that said like it is prideful as a parent if you compare how you were raised in your journey to your child, because you have no way of knowing what they're experiencing, because things are constantly changing, and that resonated really deeply with me.
Jennifer Walter:This is also what I'm accusing my mom of doing.
Shayla Varnado:The same, the exact same, the exact same, exact same. And it has been interesting because the generation that raised us didn't have as much access to, I guess, what the internet has made available all of the information and the lessons and the quick things that you can learn and intake and shift so fast. And so, since my husband and I both had never, we never talked about kids or perspectives because we weren't going to have any. That was something that we talked about a lot when I was pregnant and we got to talk about a lot post-pregnancy reparenting ourselves, and it made our marriage much better. We, in reparenting ourselves, we have gotten much better about hey, this is kind of what I'm feeling. It has absolutely nothing to do with you.
Shayla Varnado:Yeah, I am frustrated, and so if you see me upset, don't think that it's about you. This is what's actually happening. Or hey, I see that you seem frustrated or you seem like really down, what's up? Right, being able to articulate that a lot better with each other, it's been a game changer. But for me, building up my sub-emotional intelligence so that he does not fall into the stupidity of the patriarchy is very important to me.
Jennifer Walter:Oh God, yes, yeah, all of this, including the relationship part. I mean having a kid, I mean it's probably hard on any relationship, I think, because you have more needs to take care of and it's very it's been challenging. A lot of it gone. You got there at the beginning with this constant crying and milk and nappies and whatnot.
Shayla Varnado:That baby phase was not fun. I know some people think it's cute, but that was my least favorite part. I am really enjoying 2, and I know I've enjoyed 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, because it is no longer.
Jennifer Walter:That baby phase. Yeah, I mean, I feel that the baby phase was very interesting because it was physically so draining, but I was so bored at the same time, like I was like I need mental stimuli. I'm like, can I do like I don't know a crossword or something? I'm like please tell me someone what's going on in the world. Like I, yeah, I feel all I felt like all my brain was kind of like rotted, rotting away. Um, and now it's like nanny started kindergarten last year and I feel like I have some of the capacity back because like, okay, we're getting into like rhythm, as much as that's possible anyway. But now and this is a cool phase, but it's also challenging in other ways we're in the getting up, but like I don't know having the mom when will I die?
Jennifer Walter:Questions at six o'clock in the morning. And you're like I'm not ready. I'm like, okay, okay, let's like rewind and like all these like deep shit questions at six o'clock in the morning. And I'm like, okay, sure, yes, let's, let's talk about death and dying. Sure, like here for it. Let's talk about death and dying. Sure, like here for it.
Jennifer Walter:Or, yeah, she suddenly started about like how, if the kids lose their toys when there is a war, you know, and you're like all these things. I'm like, wow, yeah, I'm like you don't. Yeah, honey, well, most likely, yeah, they do. But it's like I mean I would try to like give him age appropriate, like not telling him something like, oh, there is no war, there is no patriot, but kind of like make it age appropriate war. Or there is no patriot, like, but kind of like make it each appropriate. But then again, oh man, how I do like a explain each appropriately the war in ukraine, or like the genocide in palestine, and I'm like you gotta send some notes over, because I have no idea how you explain this oh god I'm.
Jennifer Walter:I'm swimming in the deep here, like I have no idea what I'm doing, but yeah, it's really interesting. And what a major one also for me was how relationships change and like the relationship with myself, yeah, and all the others too. Like there were people who I I thought they're in my life forever and they're poof, yeah, and there are people who were like, oh, they're nice, like whenever we see each other, we have a good time, and they really stepped up their game and I didn't expect it. What was your experience with relationships?
Shayla Varnado:um, very similar to yours. Some of my friends that I have a. I feel like I have a quite a even balanced circle at times. But as I've gotten older, I'm friends with a lot of single moms and some of my friends I really expected to be there for me completely disappeared and they weren't. Um, and then some of my friends really, like you said, stepped it up. I will say, at one point I did feel abandoned by some of my close friends because I feel like when they had children I was there, um, or you know, I made sure to come and see them, I made sure to make sure I could come and help and you know, whatever it was, and some of my close friends, I think, just didn't know how to, how to be there because some of them didn't have any kids.
Shayla Varnado:So it's been interesting navigating friendships, most motherhood, because it really is like this is a major life change and and people either have to get with it or I'll see you in 20 years, I guess, like when he goes to college and he's, you know, out in his old and maybe we'll be friends again.
Shayla Varnado:I don't know, but it's like in this season it it's about him and it's about my husband, and when I have the time, I am more than ready to hold space and capacity for my friends and to be there for them, and that's something that I really enjoy. I do deeply value friendship because I recognize that, you know, our parents won't always be here. They are family. They are family, um, and so I tried my hardest to be there, um, but some people just fell by the wayside. And I also have found and I don't know if you've had this too, but I also have found that, like post-motherhood, my give a f meter is also very, very low. Like if you can't, if you can't rally and understand that I have to bring my kid to dinner or we just got to go another time, then maybe we can just call this another time. And if another time is 20 years from now, then so be it, because I'm not going to dance with you every evening and every weekend.
Jennifer Walter:I don't know what to tell you. Yes, I feel like that has laid out the most ruthlessly that's the proper English in my business, Like I, and it has paid off because so far I've never had any difficult clients who couldn't understand why I had to push a call, whether that had been for health reasons or because it related something, something. Yeah, If you don't. Oh, I only had that once.
Jennifer Walter:I was invited to come on a podcast podcast and interestingly enough, this person who invited me was a dude like or not, we're not, we're not going there for now, um, anyway, so we, we had, because of the time difference, us and and Europe, it was already kind of tricky to find a meeting. And then we found a spot and I told him yeah, that's okay, I can do Sunday evening it's not usually a time I do any kind of work related things but sure, okay, let's, if that's the only thing that we can swing. Sure, and then the day my kid got a fever spike and I was like, okay, like I, just I can't do it. He's like mommy, mommy, and I'm like, okay, no, um, right, or these, um.
Jennifer Walter:And I said, and I wrote him like I think, two hours before, like look, this is either a super last minute or like maybe he'll be fine in two hours because, but I just want to like be respectful of your time as possible as I possibly can. Um, like we have to reschedule. I think it's like I understand this is your decision. I wish you the best in life. Then Then he blocked me and I'm like well, I mean fair play to your boundaries, sir, love it.
Shayla Varnado:And I'm like okay, sure, that's one way of I feel like these things don't happen to me, because God in the universe knows. I will snap Sir sir, Because you know he can't possibly have children, Because I feel like it's impossible to have kids Like someone who is just really like mothering his kids and him.
Shayla Varnado:And he's not involved. It's gotta be that, because there's no way that you can have children and not develop a level of grace. Yeah, for people, because you cannot control infants and babies and toddlers. You can't control, right, really nothing. Who are you? Kids are just the wow factor that come along with it. You can not control. You know what I'm saying? Like stuff that happens. So, yeah, he must have hated me kids.
Jennifer Walter:I know, but it was like back to my business. It was really nice to be very strict with my boundaries and, in turn, having the clients who are like yeah, sure I get it, let's reschedule for like, sure I get it, let's reschedule for like whatever. I love that and it's so important because otherwise, I don't know, I would have loaded in my little tiny suitcase even more. Oh, that brings me to a good topic. Oh, mom, guilt.
Shayla Varnado:I feel like, how do you deal with mom guilt, shayla? I don't know, I don't know. I feel like I I don't so my mom guilt is around, feeling bad when I need a break and I'm over it. That's when I have mom guilt, because then I feel bad. That are your own needs and that's when I'm like, oh, and my husband is very good about no, going downstairs doing their nails, going downstairs, you know, go go somewhere on saturday, go to brunch, take us up to brunch like. He's really good about encouraging me to take breaks and take stuff away and I feel bad for wanting them. But between him and my best friend, who's a single mom, my best friend is like, is it? You don't get out of there? Your husband told you get out. You need't get out of there. Your husband told you get out, you need to get out and go. She'll be like and stay away all day.
Jennifer Walter:Change your cell phone number. She is like I'm serious about it, I love her. Why do you think that is, though, that you feel bad for your own needs?
Shayla Varnado:It's probably a little over the door for my own mom, probably Feeling like I have to be there and that I have to be the one that's present and does all the things, what it all actually would be. I don't have to.
Jennifer Walter:An eternal image of what has been modeled to you.
Shayla Varnado:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, and I think that that's probably a big part of it. It's something that I'm working through well, I don't know.
Jennifer Walter:we're always working through some shit. We are, we are. Shall we do like a couple of motherhood unplugged ones? Oh yeah, do you want to start off easier? Shall we do like a couple of motherhood unplugged ones? Oh yeah, I have. Do you want to start off easier or do you want to go right in the deep end? Go right in, okay, oh yes. What do you feel are some like topics related to motherhood you feel are still like taboo or not really discussed as openly as they should?
Shayla Varnado:I feel like it's not talked about enough actually how hard the first year is. I feel like there's a lot of um and I can't think of the psychological, like the term they use in psychology but it's like a lot of like, uh over, like, making it sound like it's oh, you'll be okay, oh, everyone goes through it. No, gaslighting, gaslighting, gaslighting. Yeah, there's a lot of gaslighting around the first year and and maybe it's not everybody's experience, I don't know, but mine was trash. Okay, I didn't enjoy it, I didn't like it, it was not fun, it was really hard and it really has nothing to do with it.
Shayla Varnado:For me, it didn't have anything to do with my son himself, it was me navigating this new person, this new life, like so much is different, like we're not even talking about the physical part of it, like just life in general and adjusting and adapting. And I'm I've been an entrepreneur for years now, so it's like figuring out the direction business is going to go and everything. Like it was a lot all at once and it was trash. And I feel like not enough people talk about that and especially, I can only imagine how challenging it has to be for people who go back to work, working for somebody else. That's got to be hard, yeah, and I feel like we don't. We there needs to be more space held for women. Like I know, in other countries they get a year off you need a year off.
Jennifer Walter:Oh god, yes, I mean we get, I got. Oh no, not well, we got, we get three months off, which is better than nothing, but I mean three months is just you recovering to a level where you like barely functional again? I mean not that it's a green light, I was still like more time is needed.
Shayla Varnado:I feel like that's one of those things that needs to be talked about and I think it is absolutely not. I feel like I don't hear anybody talking about it or offering any advice for the couples. Like your post, your relationship, post baby, it is so different. My husband and I were that couple that went on dates every other weekend, every single month. Yeah, I could probably count on one hand how many dates we've had the last two years, because it's just different. Where are we going to put him? Who's?
Jennifer Walter:going to watch him. So, boys and girls, take it from your wife's friends here. A baby will not fix your relationship At all At all.
Shayla Varnado:If anything, it makes it way more challenging.
Jennifer Walter:And if you don't go into parenthood like consciously, like okay, I'm gonna probably have to repair myself in some areas yeah, I'm gonna fuck shit up like we're gonna hate each other's guts at least a couple times a day, but we'll wake up at the end yep, exactly, and it's definitely the sex part I feel like I'm gonna talk about in that way.
Shayla Varnado:Sex is very different for the woman post-sex, post-baby Like. Even sometimes the mental load of running a family can impact your sex life and that's not talked about in the gender. Yeah, it's not no conversation about like okay, now I feel weird because I am like I breastfed for 18 months. You kind of can't tell me 24.
Jennifer Walter:Mm-hmm, like it was a little, did you know? My midwife told me this and I was like that, like she. They say you're fully recovered from putting a child into this world. Like fully recovered, in the sense of your hormones are back to the way they were before. Okay, roughly 12 to 18 months after you stopped breastfeeding.
Shayla Varnado:I mean, and the guy, there's a guy I don't know his name, he's not american, but he has a huge following. I found him when I was pregnant and he said that a woman's body takes like years to recover after baby like, and for everything to regulate and get back to a new normal. It takes years, if ever I've heard that.
Jennifer Walter:I mean my feet are a size bigger.
Shayla Varnado:Now I don't think they'll freak again right, like so much, stuff changes and I had heard that it takes a while and it is after you start breastfeeding, so, like it hasn't been a year, for me, now that we look, now that we're talking about it, hasn't even been a year. But yeah, stuff is still regulating and and it's a new normal that your body has to figure out, yeah, yeah I feel, another taboo topic in.
Jennifer Walter:I mean, we're slowly talking about things like mental load, at least over here, very slowly, very slowly, but just the whole like somatic experience of it I don't know, like how traumatic it is for the body and like how giving birth is probably one of the most like intense experiences or like dangerous experiences you can have and like just all the I don't know the blood and the guts and everything, like I'm like I don't know, maybe I should have watched that video.
Shayla Varnado:Look, I couldn't watch it. I couldn't watch it.
Jennifer Walter:I'm like, yeah, it's not a sanitary thing, but and I mean, oh, you know what? I would have wished that someone would have told me what? Should we go there? Yes, we should, no, no, dad. Well, I mean, I had a C-section, so that might be different. But anyway, if you have a C-section, I have a C-section, so that might be different, but anyway, if you have a C-section, I have a C-section, yeah. So if you have a C-section, make sure that before they reel you in, you get one good last dump, because the first time you have to take a number two after it's shit, it's bad.
Shayla Varnado:It's really bad.
Jennifer Walter:I don't even remember, oh no, I remember, because I had I lost. I lost a little blood, um, because some things didn't rip as they were supposed to, whatever, um, and so I had to take iron. And I'm like, listen people, I know how this iron thing works. If I have to do tablets, then I'll be constipated until the end of time, but your levels are not low enough for an IV. I'm like I have no capacity to argue now. Okay, sure, sure, I was so constipated that first dump was harder than actual fucking childbirth, like I kid you not. I wish someone would have told me. I'm trying to remember I was. It was so bad, and then I talked to you, remember they all had like similar experiences, so I felt like this should be on a manual somewhere for c-section so actually like so I remember during pregnancy.
Shayla Varnado:So when I was pregnant, my a good friend of mine was pregnant and my husband's sister and first cousin were pregnant. We were all pregnant at the same time and they all speaking of horror stories had their babies literally within a two-week time span before I had my c-section and all of them went in for vaginal births and ended up having c-sections. So I was like, excuse me, I'm not going to schedule a c-section yeah, we're not going to do that.
Shayla Varnado:We're not waiting. Yeah, so I ended up scheduling it. But what I remember during pregnancy is like I actually was PMI more regular than I was beforehand. So I don't remember. I don't remember afterwards. Afterwards I feel like I was too busy like drowning and breastfeeding and figuring out, so a lot of things get blurry yeah, I'm very I have.
Shayla Varnado:I wish I had written. I have it on my list of things to do now to start a journal for my son. I want to start writing for him and I wish I had started earlier because there are some things that are just blurring Like it was hazy the not sleeping, the not. Yeah, I feel like we're just getting into his molars are coming in, so some of the nights the last couple of weeks have been a little rough. Oh don't.
Shayla Varnado:Yeah, I remember't for the most part. Listen, it's been rough for the most part. He's like sleeping through the night now, and so it's been like it's much. It's much better. My sleep is off and I don't know if it's permanent, but at least he is sleeping through the night. Um, that is good it's been different.
Jennifer Walter:I mean, we have like a family bed, co-sleeping kind of situation, and like I'm wide awake when he just makes as little as I don't know, it's something biological. I cannot turn this off. I'm awake. Awake, yes. What do you need?
Shayla Varnado:water bottle, like I got you covered I'd partner with his end of the same I. I kicked. Now that was one thing I didn't want to do because I was like I don't want him in bed so we can come out. We co-slept for a long time and then I only get about nine months and we're like all right, you gotta go in your room, so um so did you manage that?
Jennifer Walter:we fail like or we do with that, just we try girl, I love my man.
Shayla Varnado:I needed my man next to me.
Jennifer Walter:This is very true this is very true and what I need.
Shayla Varnado:My man everywhere else, but just the bad during night is tricky what I told myself was one day this little boy is gonna come up to me and go mom, I love her and I want to marry her, and at that point, is my marriage reflective of what he's gonna work, or will I have sacrificed my marriage to have this baby in bed with me? Yeah and I was like you know what? No, he gotta go he gotta go so.
Shayla Varnado:But I am very quick to be like, um, he's coughing, yeah, leave a needle with us.
Jennifer Walter:It's right, it's always these. I, I, just, I like every year. Um, I'm in a kind of co-working network group. We all work in a mode, but once a year we get together and hang out, be social for a couple of days. I love it. I know it's our non-work work trip. We don't talk shop. So last week we went to Ireland and it's like it's bliss. I can eat all of my food in the pace I want.
Shayla Varnado:I can go to the bathroom when I want, all by myself for me it's I can take my time and do my makeup without any interruption oh, that's nice too.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, yeah, I have my. I could do my nails, or I can do my hair or whatever. It is that makes you happy uninterruptedly.
Shayla Varnado:Uninterrupted. I had my first brand trip since I had a baby this past literally this past weekend and it was amazing. It was amazing Like, yes, the sleep was great, but in confession I still had his little monitor on. You know, I still have the app was great, but in confession, I still had his little monitor on. You know, I still have the app on my phone, so I still had it on miles away, but I, at least, um, was able to, like, take my time and get ready. I'm the primary parent because of whether my husband has to go to work so literally every morning, I don't look like this. I look insane in the morning because I'm trying to get him ready so I can get him to stay here. I look crazy, and so it was nice to be able to have the weekend to like, oh, I'm gonna do my makeup every day and yeah, and yet you already mentioned it.
Jennifer Walter:We're living in this weird parallel thing where we're like, oh, freedom, independence, but I miss this teeny tiny, warm, ugly face. Yes, right, is that you really have to break the the black and white thing?
Shayla Varnado:it it's all of this at the same time and it's, it is so much every day, it's every day it is I feel like every day I I take him to school and I'm like, oh, I'm so glad he's in school and usually by the end of the day I'm like I can't wait to see my little bud do you?
Jennifer Walter:do you have any? Like I'd say they're. They're not weird per se, but no fear is weird. All fears are legit, but I've I sometimes some weird fears creep up on me, like, oh, I don't know. Like, for example, where he was little, he was like tucked away safely in his stroller and there was, we were walking over a bridge and I'm like what if a gush of wind comes now and throws the stroller over the bridge? What a stir. What am I going to do? And then I'm like what? This is like mom brain on steroids, like this is not going to happen. I definitely had that.
Shayla Varnado:There's a oh my God there. There's a terminal, there's a term for it, my I can't think of what the word is, but I definitely catastrophizing. I definitely catastrophize, um, and it's even worse because I'm a alone and I've never thought about my own death so much, which is probably very morbid and weird, but I've really, I thought about it a lot because it can also help to make you prepared.
Jennifer Walter:It is very.
Shayla Varnado:I mean, we're practically here, okay, listen, I'm like I gotta make sure he he has everything he needs in case something happens to me. And so like, yes, you always say thank you when someone gives something to you, and when a woman is walking by, you need to open the door for her. You need to be kind to people. If you offend someone, it's okay to say sorry, even if you don't understand. Right Like it's all of these like important life lessons again.
Jennifer Walter:What can I squeeze out of my brain?
Shayla Varnado:that I'm like you need right now, every day. Um, so I feel like that's probably probably the weirdest, the weirdest thing that I have thought about it. I try not to think about it much. Um, we recently lost a classmate and she has a study to her own and oh thanks it was. It was sudden and it was really, and so last week I thought about it a lot because I was just like that and it was a car accident like it's something that could happen to anyone. It wasn't anything crazy, it was a car accident. So it's just like you know. It just makes you think about how much you've done, how much you you poured into this little person, but then also I don't want to leave them. It's a big part of it. I'll just I don't want to leave them and never loved a little person so much I know they're so little and then our love for them is so big.
Shayla Varnado:They really is.
Jennifer Walter:I am. Oh, okay, we're going to end with one, with one interesting one, because I have some stories and I'm sure you have some too. Have you ever experienced mom shaming? Have you ever been shamed for the way you parent your kid, or apparently parent your kid by some random stranger you've met, or something?
Shayla Varnado:I haven't by a stranger and I would advise no one ever do that Very solid advice. Yes, look, I don't have the capacity and I will probably say yes.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, I have. My tolerance for bullshit is very low these days.
Shayla Varnado:Very, very low. I feel like I have felt the mom shamed by relative at times because I am choosing to parent differently and the choices that I make may not necessarily be what was done when I was a child.
Jennifer Walter:So I have felt mom shame well, I mean, house prices are not the same, egg prices are not the same since then, so why should we parent the same just?
Shayla Varnado:exactly, and that's literally always my point, like everything is literally different. It's yeah, 20 times the car.
Jennifer Walter:I know so much more about childhood development and trauma and brain development and like wait, wait, wait. Should we keep on doing shit that didn't clearly didn't work, because we are all in therapy?
Shayla Varnado:when I say me and my friends talk about that all the time Like clearly it didn't work because all of the millennials are in therapy, so stop judging us for the way we're choosing to parent.
Jennifer Walter:Oh no. Then comes the killer argument. Well, we suffered through, we lived through, this through, and it didn't hurt us. We're still here kicking.
Shayla Varnado:And it's like, if that's what you base your parenting off of, then if that's your baseline.
Jennifer Walter:Awkward, you're barely surviving is like your baseline, sure?
Shayla Varnado:listen. It's been, and so I had to work through my feelings on that a lot and I'm saying my most recent therapist was amazing. I one thing I will do that. One thing I've learned was like learning how to just be okay with my feelings. And if you are bold and bad enough to question something I'm doing with my child or with my husband, then be bold and bad enough to receive my response, because I'm going to respond. I'm not holding it in. I'm not having most women, like so many women, die of heart attacks. I'm not dying of a heart attack. I'm not holding in stress because I'm upset because you offended me or you hurt my feelings or you know. If you're bad enough to comment on what I'm doing, be bad enough to hear back my response. That's really bad, bad.
Jennifer Walter:That reminds me of one of my pregnancy stories. Yeah, it was, I don't know two or three weeks before I gave birth and it was like super hot. It was like end of June. It was super hot and sweaty, it was gross.
Jennifer Walter:And I was on the bus we do buses here in Europe and I was on a bus and then there was this elderly lady, I don't know, early 70s or something like that, and she came up to me and was like I know, I know, you're only like oh God, girl, don't tell me more. Anyway, she came up to me and she's like oh, pregnancy is such a miracle. And then, while she said that, she put her hands on my belly and I, fucking, I lost it. I'm like, excuse me, I'm not fucking public property, and I touched her boobs. I was like is this feeling comfortable, me touching your boobs? Yeah, this feels great. Or like I don't know, is this the kind of media you like? I snapped. I snapped in the entire bus. I went like ballistic no, that's so good. I couldn't Like. I was just like it was hot, I wanted to go home, I was thirsty, I was hungry, I was so not regulated. And then the audacity.
Shayla Varnado:That would have made my day.
Jennifer Walter:Did not sign up for this.
Shayla Varnado:That would have made my day. I don't understand the world's obsession with commenting on pregnant women's bodies. I really don't understand.
Jennifer Walter:I mean women's bodies in general Women's bodies Before, after, during.
Shayla Varnado:Because even when people are like, oh my God, you lost so much weight and blah, blah, blah, I'm like, okay, I was diabetic, I didn't have a choice. So it's not like I'm just this mom that's like oh my God, yeah, I'm super, like I'm trying to modding up on insulin. So this is not normal though. So don't think that this is it's okay, and I tell people that all the time, like what? Regardless of what happens at the baby, worry about your mental health first. You can get to the physical body right, like it's the constant commenting and comparing women like oh, she bounced back, she's so skinny oh, she's getting a lot of weight and I'm just like why?
Shayla Varnado:and the touching? You handled that perfectly because, like, I don't like to be touched when I'm not pregnant, so I can't imagine what I would have done if somebody had done that really.
Jennifer Walter:And then somehow you become public property and all the people tell you their pregnancy stories, whether you want to hear them or not, and you're like, and you hear stories of, like, how they lost their babies and like, like I'm super, super sad this happened to you, but this is no. I do not want to hear about your miscarriage, like a week before I'm scheduled to give birth. Thank you very much.
Shayla Varnado:Yeah, I'm not a and I'm wondering and I don't know why people do that either. I'm very much like oh you're pregnant. Congratulations. That's it. That's all I have to say.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, if they want to share more, I'm happy to listen. They want to ask questions? All right, yeah, no unsolicited advice, no unsolicited stories.
Shayla Varnado:I'm not giving unsolicited advice or unsolicited stories because you may not want to hear it. Your experience might not be mine. Like a lot of people, people I never share my birth story because so many people have horror stories and my birth story was great, so like I keep it to myself because it's just like I don't. I didn't like that when I was pregnant, like people imposing their experiences on me, and so I am. I try to be very thoughtful, even with I'm like other moms with their newborns, with their whatever I'm like. If you have questions, you can come ask me. Otherwise I'm going to stay over here because I don't. Every child is different and what works for one won't work for another. Right Like, so it's just like I wish the world would learn to mind their business, but I don't think social media is really helping them?
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, probably not. And I mean God. Yeah, oh God, the amount of unsolicited advice I got when, one time, I shared a picture of baby wearing.
Shayla Varnado:Thank you.
Jennifer Walter:Thank you all, random strangers of the internet, for the concern of the posture of my newborn, I guess.
Shayla Varnado:I don't share any pictures of my son Now that he's older.
Jennifer Walter:So now that he's older or something, now that he's older, occasionally I'll have, like you'll see, the back of his head exactly the back of the head, or a hand or a feet or a foot or something like that, or like him, but like his face has like a smiley sticker on it or something like that. But children are not your content yep, they have their right to their own picture or something like that. But children are not your content, yep. They have their right to their own picture and if they cannot consent you?
Shayla Varnado:Exactly, that's exactly why I didn't. I was like you know what? He is his own person, he's his own autonomy, and that was something that I learned, I had to learn and repair myself on. Because it's up to him if he wants to participate in social media, it is up to him if he wants to and even my husband laughs and jokes about it. But, like, I give him choices for a lot of things. Um, partially because I want him to be in very independent, but also because I want him to know that it's okay for him to be who he is. He does not have to be who mommy wants him to be, daddy wants him to be. You be who you are. If you like it, you like it, if you don't, you don't. So that's our. That is how I parent, very like, everybody has their own autonomy and so, yeah, yes, like 100 like we, we also do the doctor's visits.
Jennifer Walter:Like we explain it, look like you gotta like you get the vaccines now, um, and he was always a good sport, um, but we always talk to the doctor and just kind of like, well, and we have a very good pediatrician. She always asks like, look, I'm gonna do this now. Is this okay? Um, and if not, we would have gone back another time because, yeah, like I mean there, he knows that there's certain things where we have to kind of like overrule him, like when it comes to health decisions, because he cannot make them himself.
Jennifer Walter:But he chooses what he wears, he chooses the length of his hair, and he knows, now that he has blonde long locks, that he gets mistaken for a girl all the time, which is something he has to live with. But then he's like I'm not a girl, I'm a boy. Fair enough. That reminds me of one of the mob shockers, or like it probably was a grandma, I don't know, don't want to judge, and anyway, we were in the playground. He was like maybe two and a half at a time, or yeah, two and a half, and it is this blonde lock, like angel lock, like super curly, like little pigtigtail, and then she's like, oh, oh, this lovely young girl. And then, with the blonde locks, um, I think I did another one of my snap moments. I was like, well, his name is finn and he is a boy, until he tells us otherwise. She's like widely removing herself from the scene and I'm like bye-bye, good riddance.
Shayla Varnado:Those are my little pockets of joy where I'm like, yeah, it can be hard to tell at times what is all of it. Could I be an ass?
Jennifer Walter:Just ask if you're not sure. I mean, if you're not sure of someone, before you assume somebody's gender or sexuality, religion, just ask, like, what's the big deal? Ask, what are your preferred pronouns? I don't know, but anyway, that's it. I just thought of one last question. No, actually the second last, it was the same Second last. What's the most useful shit you bought for your baby? Oh, that's a good question. I mean, we're not giving unsolicited advice. You're still here, so this is solicited. What's the dumbest shit? You bought the most useless shit, most useless. I don't care about useful, I care about the most useless. Oh, useless, yes, useless. Oh, I mean, you can also share me the most useful. But the useless is always more interesting because you buy some crap that you think you're going to need because I don't know. You scrolled TikTok at 3 o'clock in the morning and then you bought something on Amazon and you're like nah, I would not say this happened to me.
Shayla Varnado:We did not have to buy a lot of stuff, but some things that we did not use was probably we ended up with a whole bunch of bad stuff, a lot of like random stuff that I recently packed it all up completely and opened and sent it off to the grills. We had a lot. We had two Baptists. We had a lot of extra stuff, though. I the baby washcloths. I hate them. We use them on this face now, but they're like small and they don't sun now, but they're like small and they don't sud and they're weird. My mom made a ton of washcloths for him and we love those because they're normal size and they suds really well. Um, so I really like the one she gave us. We did not not use and we had a lot. I probably had at least 50 wash balls, baby wash balls Wow, and I'm like what Are people actually using these?
Jennifer Walter:We didn't use them. I know we had them too and I'm like, yeah, we even, I don't know as a babe over your shoulder if they break our hand.
Shayla Varnado:Yeah, like I didn't, we didn't use them like that. Probably the most useful thing which my family it grows my family out, but it was very helpful. Someone that knows everything, oh yeah, and so good.
Jennifer Walter:I love that thing. I love helping my baby. It was, it's so weirdly, a fantastic. It's so gross.
Shayla Varnado:I know right, and my husband was like I'm not doing that.
Jennifer Walter:I'm like wait, no, we were actually kind of fighting about it because we're also both like oh, there's a pinball, Can we like push it. So we're both like but it was your turn last time, it was my night.
Shayla Varnado:I was very excited to do it. Every time I'm like, oh, I get to clear your nose out, I'm happy to help.
Jennifer Walter:I mean, how much stuff does fit in those tiny noses? It's amazing.
Shayla Varnado:I'm like where is this coming from?
Jennifer Walter:You're not that big, no Like is your whole belly filled with snot. I have no idea. It's still one of the big mysteries of life, like I have no idea. It's one of the big mysteries of life Like I have no idea.
Shayla Varnado:It really is.
Jennifer Walter:Oh, my god, I could talk to you about Motherhood Unplugged for a long, long time, shayla. I could too. Before I let you go, let us know where can people find you. If people be like oh, I want to see the all the other sides of shayla, not just the mom side, where can people find you?
Shayla Varnado:uh well, I am on social media at shayla bernardo or at black girls wine, if you're a wine lover, and whoever can follow my journey.
Jennifer Walter:Perfect. I'm such a wine snob Like I just drink. I have friends who are very good with wine, so I'm always trusting their opinion and if it's a Portuguese wine I'm like yeah, sure, whatever, that's fine. And one last question before I let you off the hook. It's a question I always ask what book are you currently reading, or what?
Shayla Varnado:audiobook. Are you currently listening to Potty Training?
Jennifer Walter:Oh, or what episode are you currently on?
Shayla Varnado:A little bit. I'm like I am currently reading Proven Five Steps Potty Training in One Weekend.
Jennifer Walter:That's a little messy. I mean, that's very important.
Shayla Varnado:I am trying to master potty training but other than that, scale or fail, oh, scale or fail, oh okay. I am taking the digital marketing agency to the next level, working with new clients, exciting clients, and want to scale the business. So PLR fail that sounds good.
Jennifer Walter:We're going to list those on the show notes and in a scenic library. So if you're ever short on reading what to read next or you have to polytrain a toddler, you know where you find a literature to do it. Sheila, it has been a blast. Thank you so much for joining me on a scenic route.
Shayla Varnado:Yes, thank you for having me, Jennifer. This was a lot of fun.
