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Scenic Route
Life's one helluva ride — why not enjoy the view?
The Scenic Route Podcast is your audio chill pill, serving up mindset shifts, laughs, and 'aha!' moments that fuel your soul and your wallet.
We're all about:
- Finding purpose (without the fluff)
- Embracing the soft life (because hustle culture is so last season)
- Real talk (sugar-coating? Not around here)
- Actionable insights (for when you're ready)
- Daring convos (we go there, babes)
- Building resilience (without the toxic positivity)
- Mindfulness for real people (with real problems)
Whether you're feeling lost and emotionally exhausted, hiding from your kids in the bathroom, need a break from the chaos, or want to zen out, we've got you covered.
Join Jennifer Walter, sociologist (MASoc UCC) and pathfinder, on this journey to inner peace — with a generous side of potty humour.
Ready to care less about others' BS and more about your own bliss? Hop on The Scenic Route. Trust us, the view up here is *chef's kiss*.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Your next chill session awaits. You coming?
Scenic Route
Live Fully and Become a Better Leader: Authentic Integrity Made Actionable feat. Christine Lieu
What if you could lead your life, team or business with unwavering integrity, even under societal and cultural pressures?
Join us in this episode as we host Christine Lieu, the visionary founder of CL Designs and host of the Brand Party podcast. Christine shares her inspiring journey from a safe corporate job to becoming an adventurous, globe-trotting graphic designer.
Christine opens up about the internal battles she faced as a first-generation Canadian and how she discovered her "North Star" to guide her through challenging decisions and ultimately lead her to her true calling.
Together, we navigate the complexities of personal and business values, reflecting on the roles of efficiency, integrity, and celebration. We explore the true meaning of efficiency—intentional productivity over mere busyness—and emphasize the importance of celebrating progress, not just the end goal. Learn how surrounding yourself with supportive, like-minded individuals and embracing nature's cycles can help you plant seeds with intention and remain open to unexpected, beneficial outcomes.
In this episode, you will discover:
- Christine Lieu’s journey from a corporate job to becoming a global graphic designer.
- How Christine, as a first-generation Canadian, overcame internal battles to find her "North Star."
- The significance of personal and business values like efficiency, integrity, and celebration.
- Understanding efficiency as intentional productivity over mere busyness.
- The importance of celebrating progress, not just the end goal.
- How to surround yourself with a supportive, like-minded community.
- Embracing the cycles of nature for balance and planting seeds with intention.
"Are you absorbing other people's perceptions or projections of you, or is it really yours at the end of the day?" Christine Lieu
Don't miss this insightful episode on creating thriving communities! Subscribe, rate, and review the Scenic Route on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favourite platform.
Connect with Christine Lieu
Website
Instagram
Listen to her podcast, Brand Party
Work with Christine
Download her Brand cons
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Desire to find your Scenic Route? Visit jenniferwalter.me — a welcoming space for the emotionally exhausted to rest, discover, and playfully embrace inner peace. Embrace a softer, more fulfilling life today!
For snapshots from Jennifer's scenic route to a softer life come over to
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Ready to embrace your Scenic Route? Step off the beaten path with the Scenic Route Affirmation Card Deck. It's not about the hustle; it's about finding the courage to trust your inner compass and carve a path that's authentically yours.
Tap into your inner wisdom and let it guide you.
👉 Discover Your Scenic Route Affirmation Card
Curious about what insights await you today? Dive in and let your scenic journey unfold, one affirmation at a time.
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If you found value in today's episode, I would appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review and help me share the soft life message.
hard truth time. Raise your hand if you've been there too, and please let me know I'm not the only one. I know I'm not the only one, so let's all close our eyes and raise our hands. Have you ever compromised on your values? To keep peace, to please others, to meet others' expectations? I must admit I have, and I'm in remission, and if that's you too, then grab a seat. Join me on the Scenic Route podcast today, on this episode with Christine Liu, where we discuss the importance of integrity in decision making and how we can stay true to ourselves and to our principles in both business and life. Thank you. Christine Lieu is the expert behind CL Designs and the Brand Party podcast. She's a graphic designer who traded in climbing the corporate ladder for climbing mountains around the world.
Jennifer Walter:Christine helps purpose-driven businesses create cohesive branding, web design and social content to drive impact and sales, as featured in Top 10 Canada Design, the Brand Party Podcast delivers fun, honest and to-the-point advice that you can implement right away. Christine, welcome to the Cinegrad Podcast. How are you?
Christine Lieu:It's good. How are you? Thank you so much for having me.
Jennifer Walter:Thank you. It's always interesting to talk to a fellow brand professional, so we're gonna nerd out a bit today, I suppose. So please forgive us, but we're covering so much more, um than just like how to slap a logo on your business, because we have a similar understanding of branding that goes very deep to the core of who you are and what you stand for. And with that, there's really one thing we we always come back to again and again, and again, and it's well, what are your values like? How, how do you like make decisions that are right for you personally and for your business? And with decisions, that always brings me to the interesting question what is like, christine, what is like a decision that you made for your business that was like just like that, like a pivotal moment, another journey together.
Christine Lieu:I feel like the best decision that I've ever had by far, but also one of the most difficult. In that moment, at that stage in my life, was very much like going against, you know, society and cultural norms Also. Like you know, I am first generation Canadian here also, and that like having the traumas and experiences of my parents being all there, you know, sacrificed to be able support you, excited, I want to leave my comfortable cushy like nine to five job in climbing the corporate ladder into climbing mountains around the world instead was by far like a lot of shame and guilt trying to make that decision like so much in the pit of my stomach but then at the same time now you know, five plus years out of that decision, it has been by far the best, most fulfilling decision I've ever made.
Jennifer Walter:I love this because, yeah, isn't this so true though, the decisions that are like really hard to make are also, maybe just in hindsight, incredibly easy to take, right, Because it was just kind of like, well, of course, yes, I got to do this.
Christine Lieu:Yeah, I think that's the thing about you know, you always hear from other fellow entrepreneurs. Right is that you need to have that purpose or that clarity in place so that you're able to make these decisions, and I don't think there is any sort of like, right or wrong answer for people, but it's rather you know what is being pulled and challenged by for that decision as well, to really help guide you as your North Star when it feels a little bit foggy some days.
Jennifer Walter:Also, you know yeah, like, I love that you brought up the North Star, and anyone who has worked with me on their brand is like, oh no, don't let her talk about the North Star, but it's so true, right, like we, we need something. That kind of like helps to pull us along when we're like in the midst of things and especially when we're like, yeah, when we're doing decisions that go against what we have been conditioned to believe, and I mean shame on you for not being a lawyer or a doctor anyway, right exactly.
Christine Lieu:I mean, I knew very early on that was not the path for me personally, like, but it all worked out the way that it was meant to. I truly believe, oh God, yeah.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, absolutely. This is the thing, like. It's so interesting how, like I grew up in a totally different kind of environment, but not in the sense of they had like expectations like, oh, you have to become a lawyer or a doctor or a corporate job, but more in the sense of, oh, like, whatever, she'll be fine and this. At the at first glance this sounds very empowering, but it wasn't really like I really had to figure it out by myself and it was like yeah, thanks mom, thanks dad. That's, we have to find a middle ground between those two extremes. But during like, let's look back in that time where you're like okay, now I know what I want. The corporate is not it. I want something else. I want to experience something else. Like how, how did you like make that decision for?
Christine Lieu:yourself? Was it like a a?
Jennifer Walter:boom bandaid ripoff, or was it like a slow?
Christine Lieu:process. A bit of both, I would say. I think that, like it's all like a series of choices, right, that we make on a daily basis and each given moment, we might feel a little bit differently each day about it as well, Right? So it's such a roller coaster in that sense, and if people are on that emotional roller coaster, like you know population many, I imagine but in terms of that decision, I feel like it had been brewing in terms of setting myself up for success in a way over a number of years because I had been freelancing while working in corporate as well to really have more of you know what people are striving for in terms of that stability and consistency in place, to know that you are able to jump off the cliff and know that you're going to fall gracefully, you know, in a way or to have that net underneath, essentially so like it was important for me to make somewhat of a logical decision, as much as my heart wanted to like jump, just like burn, burn, burn bridges, right it's.
Christine Lieu:Another thing is I didn't even hate my job necessarily, but I just knew that there was more out there also, and so for me it wasn't necessarily, it was always that challenge of not settling right and so knowing that there was more out there for me and that I could be so much more excited, more fulfilled, more satisfied perhaps elsewhere, and I truly believe too, if you are talented and hardworking enough like you can always go back and that's no problem. Also, people have priorities, change all the time and it's no judgment, literally, you know, I just maybe didn't find my dream job in the corporate setting of things, and so I had to kind of create my own version of what that looked like for my own career path, and so, gratefully, before the pandemic, I feel like I had basically gotten enough demand, just as one human being especially also being able to do all of the things. It wasn't sustainable to do all of it from morning to night to. You know, you're thinking about it, sleeping, dreaming about layouts also no, not a good look, right. No, it's not cute.
Christine Lieu:So, knowing that and really coming to terms with making sure that I was prioritizing my own wellbeing because that's actually one of the reasons that I started my first business, like 10 years ago was because a number of loved ones in my life had actually passed away, and it really made me reflect on how did I want to show up in the world? What was the legacy I wanted to put out there? How am I going to live in my values and truly like live right? And so it's always come back to that sort of lesson that I keep learning time and time again in my life, and it's helped support me in making business decisions equally as much as well and designing a way of life that I love, but also like a business that I love equally as much too, that they feel synchronistic in many ways versus trying to strive for harmony or like balance right that people are always looking for. So, yeah, I think it's. It kind of happened, naturally in some ways, that it was veering towards that path, but at the same time, I gave my resignation letter. The same day, I was flying to Greece one day as well, and then that's the vibe, You're going to work you know, for a few weeks to be somewhat respectful, and then jetted off and started my business.
Christine Lieu:Yeah, full time traveling the world.
Jennifer Walter:So I love this and, oh God, you touched on so many important things. I'm like I have to make a mental note of all the very smart things you said and then I have to kind of like weave it all back together.
Jennifer Walter:But like, yes, like, if you're listening and this is very, very true, what you said right. Like you don't have to move into entrepreneurship because you just fucking hate your corporate job. Like you can, but you don't necessarily have to right, it's you, I, I don't. What I currently really don't like in the online space is all entrepreneurship is going to save you. Well, probably not. If you approach it like this and something like also another job can save you. Or like the same job, like another job in the same company, or another role in another company, or whatever. Like it doesn't have to be entrepreneurship for everyone. I truly love it, but I don't think it's the cure-all for everyone. Um, so there's and yeah, as I've said, there's no shame in going back or having an entrepreneurship and a part-time position, like whatever fucking works for you, right?
Jennifer Walter:and I feel like it's really glamorized yes, and it's so much shame around like the side hustle and like what it's like.
Jennifer Walter:All or nothing right sort of approach, so unnecessary and I feel it just makes a lot of people feel bad that they're like oh, but I'm still like, working my nine to five and I'm then it means I'm not taking this seriously enough or whatever all these limiting stories that we tell ourselves. So I'm really glad that you brought this up and, yeah, we're like no, no, no, not true. Smash smash next. And you also came back to like your North Star again and I want to ask you like do you want to share your north star, like your values, with us? What do you like?
Jennifer Walter:is the basis of the decisions you make for your life and business yeah, it's because I find it so like intertwined towards one another.
Christine Lieu:I think it's really. It's been lovely to come back to these values time and time again, especially in those stickier moments in your life or your business as well. So I've come back to these three ongoingly, and it's efficiency, integrity and celebration are the three.
Jennifer Walter:I like celebration in the mix there.
Christine Lieu:Yes, cause I truly believe just to break it down a little bit further too for context, like that efficiency piece, it really comes back to also destigmatizing a lot of that, of that word productivity associated, really important for me. And then also, in, you know, being challenged by these stickier moments in life, having this integrity has been so important for me as well, to show up with grace for myself, for, you know, others as well, with this compassion, but also being able to, yeah, lead in a way that feels right for me and that feels like you're not faking it, you know, like exactly what you see is what you get. So that integrity is so important for me to kind of lead forward with and be an example for as well. But also then, on the celebration side, it's really important for me to, you know, acknowledge that there isn't always the bright, sunny, unicorn type days, but how can we enjoy the journey and as much as the destination and celebrate the winds?
Jennifer Walter:along the way.
Jennifer Walter:Everyone amen yeah, it's so important oh god, yeah, I love this combination of the tree and I really it's really funny. The efficiency piece was like, yeah, it resonates with me and because especially good things sometimes take a while Not always, but sometimes they just do. But sometimes they just do. And there's sometimes this notion of the scenic route or the soft life of okay, you're just chilling and not doing anything and everything is just slow and like there is no like grind and hustle and pressure and I'm like, well, I everyone who knows me knows I can go, I can go hard, I can go hard, but it's about the balance, right, it's. It's not just going hard for the sake of going hard.
Jennifer Walter:If if you're in, flow and in and it's just oozing out of you and you're getting shit done lightning speed. That's. That's amazing. If you experience this, if you're like whoa okay, I did all of this and like what yeah, instead of like pushing through, so you really have to come into this efficiency.
Christine Lieu:I love I love that you mentioned flow, because I feel like it comes back to that nourishment of being intentional and focused as well, and it comes back to like those values and purpose as we talk about right, because I feel like when you're just stuffing up your calendar for the sake of being busy, um, so that you can, I don't you wear that as a badge of honor or something like.
Christine Lieu:That's something that I've had to really work through over the years, like transparently also and recovering you know, workaholic in many ways recovering people pleaser and yeah, we're all in recovery, in remission here right, and so I really come to enjoy and come back to knowing also a lot of inspiration from nature, of you know the seasons, like we all, are not meant to be in full bloom all the time, and you're meant to like have those slower moments where you can start planting things and, you know, laying down the foundations and all these things so that you can bloom so much more of a flourish season in the future.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's very true. Right like you, you're always planning, as you said before, like it's all just a series of choices, and and it's always you're always planting a seed and oftentimes, like more often than not, you have no idea what, what's going to become of the seed, if anything at all, right, and you're just I don't know't know going merrily away and planting seeds. And if you're not enjoying this process of going merrily and planting seeds, you're just waiting desperately for whatever is there to bloom and you're wasting so much life space with it.
Jennifer Walter:It's kind of sad.
Christine Lieu:Yeah, I like this analogy, though In some ways it's like, okay, you know what if you get a rabbit that happens to come into your garden and like accidentally moves your tulip bulbs and replaces it with, like a potato or something like that, and maybe that's like what you really needed instead, you know, and so I think life is full of surprises wait. There's a potato plant in my tulip garden, but yeah so you never know what you might need versus, sometimes, what you think that you want.
Jennifer Walter:Oh, yeah, and what you want to hear is most likely not what you need to hear yeah.
Christine Lieu:So, even as you mentioned to Jennifer, I feel like the you know changing roles in your career. I feel like equally as much to finding the right people to surround yourselves with, in that environmental impact that you're experiencing, perhaps make such a world of difference as well, because you know these are the noises that you hear in terms of like the people around you. You know what the language of you know the vocabulary of things, of how they're speaking about their life, and you know all these things that it has such an impact on how we live our lives. And then are you absorbing other people's perceptions or projections of you, or is it really yours at the end of the day?
Jennifer Walter:Yes, this is so true, and I really believe this goes for values too. Right, it's really hard to. I remember when I was at the beginning of the pro of this kind of like untangling process. It was really hard to figure out. Is this something I want, or is this something I think I should want, or is it something I think my mother wants for me? Or so how did you I mean, you've listed your three values beautifully how, like, how was the process of like discovering them? Do you, like, do you have a process that you maybe also guide your clients through? Or like how? I mean, I don't think you sat down. One day.
Christine Lieu:I'm like, I'm gonna write down my values today but I mean, yeah, I think it's important to reassess often, um as well, just check in with yourself. You know, as we say, like quiet the noise a little bit too. So I like to look at it more deeply, I would say like on an annual basis, just to check in if it still aligns with you know how I'm, how I want to move through life also. But I would say at the very, very beginning of this sort of journey of identifying these three in particular, is that the integrity one actually, in particular, has changed slightly. I feel like each of them has kind of remained at core, but the integrity one used to be transparent. I will leave it out in that. Yeah, exactly, and like things shift and evolve also.
Christine Lieu:But I had really sat with it, especially during that period of that year, that first year, especially when I had left my job in the corporate world to start full time into my entrepreneurship journey. I really had to sit with you know how. What's really important for me, in what place am I making these decisions? Even just like as simple as maybe like how you're making your lunch decisions, right, it's like if I value efficiency, for example, and I have a really busy workday and it demands a lot of my capacity and attention, and I still want to prioritize my well-being and nourishment.
Christine Lieu:Perhaps I am going to Uber eat something, and so it's interesting to see how your values show up in different decision-making things, even as picking out lunch as minute, as picking out lunch right, so that when you do get to those bigger business decisions of like how are you going to reinvest into your business or the type of people that you're going to work with, all these kind of come into play as well. But I love coming back to Brene Brown's values exercises in particular, and so she has like a long list of them and I go through them with all my branding clients, especially to work through narrowing down, you know, into your top 10 and then even further to your top five, and then ideally, you get to a core two to three. I feel like having those core two to three in particular are more, again, intentional versus having a list of 10. It can start to get a little bit muddled in some sense when you're making decisions right.
Jennifer Walter:yeah, I know what you mean and is there still like a prop, like a conscious or unconscious way of like making decisions? When, like you're unsure, do you consciously think of like, oh, these are my values, and which ones, like align with my decision? Or how would my decision look like if I would like follow one or all of the values?
Christine Lieu:yeah, I would say, especially the integrity one is what comes to surface most highly, I guess, or most frequent, um, during these times, especially because I find I've been asking myself in those moments, you know, what is the type of boss that I would like to be or aspire to be also, and so I'll make decisions based on how would I feel most proud and integral to show up and if it was exposed to the world, for example, even like would I be? Yeah, would I be happy to have this version of myself, you know, showcased.
Jennifer Walter:And so it's really helped me put this into perspective. Yeah, and it's also probably interesting. Like the, I mean the value piece. What I mean it's it's one thing, right, like you've said it. You also listed your values and their nouns, but like a value, ultimately is a verb, it's something you do right. So what are, like, the core behaviors that support your values? Like, how do you live them out in your daily life?
Christine Lieu:Yeah, I would say the efficiency piece definitely on a more probably day to day operational basis, you see, in terms of like onboarding to, thankfully, my really great systems and tools that I use on an ongoing basis in my business. You know the type of communications that I have with any sort of contractors or clients, for example right, um. Those are the typically the pieces that show up in the efficiency side in particular, um, and then in the integrity side, I think especially in stickier moments, that's where it really shows up again like kind of prompting, based on those reflection questions that we just talked about.
Christine Lieu:Um and then also even, just like in referrals, like I'm happy to, you know, share introductions to folks all the time as well, like this is just part of my DNA, but then also on the celebration side of it, it shows up a lot. I feel like in the social media space, when I'm connecting with other folks in my community as well, it's really important for me to be able to celebrate other folks equally as much of what they're doing, cause it just like re-inspires and refills my cup as well in many ways. But also during my off-boarding as well, with clients, like I always like to ask them how do you like to celebrate big wins, good news, all that stuff.
Christine Lieu:And then I like to send them a personalized gift after the first time we've worked together as well, and so this way it just feels, yeah, hyper tailored and, you know, special to them in that way of how they like to celebrate, to honor that part of the process too.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, oh, I love this, how you can really let your values kind of like reflect through your entire I don't know client life cycle, client full, whatever you want to call it through like your entire relationship of be like, hey, how can I like foster this and like how can I, yeah, bring what can I do? That's maybe a bit unexpected, just to delightful surprise, yeah, yeah exactly oh, this is really nice.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, I love that you touched up on this is are there other examples that where you're like, where people you know, when people are like, oh this is really cool, I want to do like, do something like this too? Is this like from your client work? Do you think there's like a, a real ideal place or situation where you can bring something in like?
Jennifer Walter:what do you what? Do you advise your clients when they're like, oh, I want to do something like this and I know my values, and like, okay, how can we, like I don't know, make something like this and like our own, not just like copy, I don't know, whatever Christine's doing.
Christine Lieu:I mean, you know what I think it's always. I think this is a really interesting topic that you bring up, because I feel like a lot of clients struggle with the vocabulary piece in our branding world, especially right.
Jennifer Walter:So even I think language is so powerful, very true, so I think, this could be an interesting conversation to have in terms of you know.
Christine Lieu:That's why it's really important for me to just get on the same page from the very beginning when we have our consultation together, because this way, when you say bold, for example, or um, elegant, sophisticated, let's just say that might look very different in your head than, oh god, yes, you could ask 10 people, what does? Elegant mean, and you get like 10 different, 10 different examples, exactly.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah.
Christine Lieu:Right. And so I've we both seen it like time and time again, oh dear Lord, yes. And then to see, then, the visual examples which I always ask for also. So not only the vocabulary of how you're describing things and the languages that you're using, but also the visual translation of what you're envisioning that to mean to you is equally important, so that then I can ask, like as the expert, to clarify even further what that vision is Right. And so it's really important for me to dissect that, because that way we're speaking the same language, no matter if we have the same one-on-one vocabulary or not, like it doesn't really matter at that point, it's really, um, being able to communicate clearly, right, and so I think that's why it's so important for clients ideally to have tried a few things out on their own also. I really love I know it can be sticky, but at the same time I think it really gives them clarity equally as much to know what they equally don't like as part of the process to narrow down yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Jennifer Walter:I personally I love and and I don't know I'm very knowledgeable client compared to someone who doesn't really care. Right, I don't know the way I brand. Like I, like I cannot brand for you, like you have to tell me who you are and the better you know yourself that, the easier and smoother and enjoyable this process gets and the more likely we're gonna hit it big do you feel like Jennifer actually also, that you feel part like therapists in a way when you work with your clients?
Christine Lieu:So the way the reason that I say this for context also is like to your point I feel like a lot of the work that we do as part of brand experts is very much psychology based, right From the colors that we choose, the emotional impact of it. Yeah, who are you Like?
Jennifer Walter:these are simple questions in theory, but they're such deep, um deep questions that not a lot of people think about yes, and I mean adding to that that, I don't know, the color red means something totally different in europe than it does in asia, or like you have so many cultural differences as well on top of that, and then adding to markets and niches, and, yes, you can be, you can use the color black in, I don't know, the wellness industry. I mean, I'm all always for disrupting something, but you just you got to be well aware that you're disrupting, otherwise it's not gonna it's it's gonna be just gonna be sticky right. Um, this is really funny. Yes, um, I, yeah, I'm I. Yes, I am definitely um heart therapist and it has also kind of like been my personal journey of the past, of the past couple of months, where I'm like, you know, I'm kind of ready to leave branding and really go more into the the therapist coaching kind of world, um, because this is currently where I feel like I'm most at home. Um, but, yeah, one, one hundred percent. And it's also kind of started that I was like, oh, okay, I got this.
Jennifer Walter:What we said at the beginning like we, we, we, like I've always when you've been if, when you're around, when you've been around here at the Cinegram podcast. You know, I'm not always. I'm always saying like, oh, strategy is like just one bit right you need. You need like the, the spirit piece of, like your intuition and your, your like the somatic experience of your body, right when there could be like a strategic, very smart decision. But if you feel there's a pit in your stomach every time you think about it, it might not be the decision for you right now. So I know it's like, oh, you need to balance all of those. And so I started learning, like learning and training in different modalities, like NLP or tapping, the EFT freedom technique, tapping, which is the recent one Like, okay, we need to like balance everything in. And when you work on this and then you brand, oh, there's magic, that's coming, magic.
Christine Lieu:I'm like, yes, yeah, it can be incredibly healing of a process to go through.
Jennifer Walter:Like you know to.
Christine Lieu:I always like to say it is the most courageous thing to like live your truth and to like, like, truly live in your values of it Because I think I don't believe that, you know, majority of the world is and I feel like it's such a beautiful thing when you can live so authentically and within those values. You just have such a deeper sense of fulfillment from it, that and like radiance that you might not have experienced yet yes, absolutely true.
Jennifer Walter:And and the whole, like the whole thing of like being authentic on social media and all these things right like it just kind of like falls away.
Jennifer Walter:You don't have to think about, yeah, what do I post it just kind of like falls off and you're like you know what, I'll just post whatever is kind of like in, in line or with my North Star or with my values or with my true self, however you want to refer to it, and this is what I love about it it's A like magnetic and attractive as fuck, and B.
Jennifer Walter:It's also giving like kind of I hate this kind of like the word, oh, it's giving permission to others to do the same, but it's. It maybe inspires them or motivates them to be like you know what, like she looks like me, she talks like me, she does it. Hey, you know what, maybe I can do it too. And this is really cool and where the whole like yeah and representation piece also comes in right when we see more people doing entrepreneurship from a different perspective. That's not the hustle and the grind or the girl boss or whatever narrative, but you know, just like ordinary janes want to have some fun doing something they like and getting paid for it, you know it.
Jennifer Walter:It. Oh, tell me, tell me, christine, if this also resonates with your client work. Just had this like pop up sometimes when I do the the value work with clients, they're almost like like they don't feel this is their value because it doesn't feel like deep enough. You know what I mean, like I feel it's oh, it has to be something like growth, yeah, or freedom, yes. I'm really sorry, if you're listening to this on the podcast version, you're not seeing my fantastic hand gestures.
Jennifer Walter:So you should watch you should go to youtube and watch it there for full effect for like yes, thank you, disclaimer. But you know they always feel like oh yes, has that has it come across has this come across?
Christine Lieu:absolutely. I feel like also the simplicity is so underrated and right like like, not only in this values exercise and narrowing things down, but also like from a branding perspective, like from a visual communications approach, like simplicity is really hard to achieve in many ways as well, right like it's the hardest, simplest of everything over is super easy exactly right like this is why mcdonald's and nike or starbucks they're all so iconic right like you can each.
Christine Lieu:Every time that I just said those words, I know that each listener already had their logo pop in their head right, yeah, like these are the moments where being able to really get to such a cellular, like individual level of how you can break things down because if you're keeping it simple and easy for yourself, imagine how clear, that crystal clear that is to your target audience, then right. Or your dream clients, because if you're confused, likely your, your audience is also, so that's kind of like how I like to put it into perspective.
Jennifer Walter:You know true but I'm also working with a lot of clients who it might not be as easy for them to explain what they do, right. Um, and this goes for a lot of them are in kind of like the wellness therapy kind of, or coaching industry where, like when you do websites, it is somewhat clear what you do. I've always felt when I talk about branding it gets a little murkier, because it's not just if I would say I'm a logo designer, then be like, yeah, I do logos. But if I say I'm branding, it's kind of like oh, let's wait a lot of to unpack, so what? What do you have like an advice for people who wear? It is kind of murky to explain what they do they might not even like really sure, like they know what I mean.
Jennifer Walter:They know like they do coaching, but I don't know.
Christine Lieu:I think it's the ambiguity yeah, I think you know it comes back down to, I feel like, setting expectations we talked about earlier too right.
Christine Lieu:It's like, are people going to have, like, an entry point or an access point to be able to, like, build enough intrigue, to feel brave enough to take that next step, to reach out to you? Right, thinking about, like the customer journey of things and, you know, making it easy and welcoming for people to invite them to take that next step, because it does take multiple touch points to get them there right, and being conscious of that, but, at the same time, what's gonna, yeah, like, are you going to promote a sense of understanding, ultimately, of meeting people where they're at, equally as much? Because I feel like those are the most powerful brands that showcase some sort of sense of vulnerability or understanding, because people just want to feel seen and heard at the end of the day, right and appreciated in that way, versus the one that feels sometimes overly aspirational, that you don't have any sort of connection point to. You know, uh, even take that next step, or it's like it's too intimidating, perhaps as well.
Jennifer Walter:I've heard a lot of right, so oh, this is yes, yes, oh, this brings to, oh, this brings to mind um rachel hollis gate of, I don't know, 2021 or so I don't know it was um, she, she got in a bit of a of a shit storm for saying, in a tiktok, something along the lines of oh, I I'm don't like, I don't strive to be like relatable and it's like yes, but if you're not relatable and it's so lovely that you said this, christine it can be too far out of fucking reach. It's like so glossy that when I don't know, when I look at him, like yeah, no, like it's too off-putting. Yeah, and some, of course, sometimes it's my own bullshit, limiting stories, sure, but yeah, I'm glad you said this.
Christine Lieu:I think it's important to yeah, like you said, especially if you are the service or product like provider that is working so intimately in the space, especially in the wellness space, where it is such a like vulnerable thing to show up as like they want to know that they can talk to you and reach out to you on like on a human level right like I don't in the especially in the world of the digital landscape that's creating so much AI bots out there. Like people are craving that connection more than anything now and I feel like for me personally and for I feel like a lot of folks, they really want a humanized brand moving forward so that they feel like they. There is that like emotional impact still yes, and I mean the humanized brand.
Jennifer Walter:I mean that goes back to the very origins of branding, right like, with like uncle ben's fries and whatever like, and on jemma's pancake mixes or whatever right Like.
Jennifer Walter:I mean, we always had this thing of like humanizing brands, which, I must say, I'm not really a big fan of big corporations doing this, because who are you trying to fool here, right?
Jennifer Walter:Or if you see big online business gurus having this over personified humanized brand, when you damn well know they have like a team of 50 working for them not such a big fan, but but at the same time, and equally true for like, just infuse more of your humanness and whatever you do and let it like show up in in your values, right, however you like, you, yeah, however, whatever kind of values you've said for yourself, but just yeah, allow yourself and your brand and business to be more fully human and just and then run with it, because if you're listening to this, it's a fat chance you don't own like a 70 billion dollar company with like a gazillion of employees. Maybe you do, I don't know. Um, so just yeah, use, use yours, use your one person business as your strength and just really like be, be that, and I love what you said, um that people, people, at the end of the day, do business with people and want to do business with people. Otherwise, I they just I don't know would ask chachi pT yeah, exactly right.
Jennifer Walter:There's so many other routes that you could go now, if you so choose absolutely, and and I'd say it's not even just true for the wellness industry right like, there are so many people who do brands and websites I mean a gazillion of people, and they're probably all very super, as talented and as gorgeous and great as we two are. But ultimately, like if, if you can stand my face or christine's face like don't hire us like it would, it would not be fun for anyone, right like it's just that's why I don't know. It's always also the lovely side effect of if you show up with your values.
Christine Lieu:Like one thing I always people yes, and it's always like.
Jennifer Walter:Sometimes I get clients asking me well, like, how do I, how do you handle these tricky clients when you have to like reschedule meetings and something, and I'm like I just rescheduled meetings because I tell them I am sick or I'm not feeling well, or my kids just throw up all over the floor and they're like, yeah, sure, life happens, like sure let me like let me know when, when you like, when you're free, it's never a big deal, because I'm very upfront with look, this is what's going on.
Jennifer Walter:And if you're like, oh God, no, how can't you do business like this, then well, please, do not bring your business my way, please. How did I feel you?
Christine Lieu:I deeply sense you approach this very similar to me yeah, I'm very direct also when I approach things, but even you know we've rescheduled this one, for example, the podcast right and it was no problem, like it was easy, and I think that's like the feedback that I keep getting also, when I offer clients and I ask them for feedback as well each time to help continue improving the process for myself and for future clients.
Christine Lieu:It's like they always say how easy it is and it's like, you know, or they really appreciated the moments when, yeah, maybe their kid was sick at home and you know they needed to change things around in their schedule that day. No problem, like, happy to accommodate, like you, you know I can understand. As long as they have this level of commitment and um to towards what they want to accomplish together in this collaborative setting and being mindful of one another, respectful ultimately too, then I have no issue, you know, like no problem yeah, yes, I mean, granted, like being mindful and respectful of everyone's time, and sometimes shit just hits the fan and you're like rolling with the punches cleaning up the vomit.
Jennifer Walter:We're like life is good, it's all good.
Christine Lieu:But that's why, yeah, purpose and intention is so important in those moments right, absolutely, absolutely.
Jennifer Walter:And, christine, this has been such a really fun conversation. We've covered life and business and everything in between. As we always kind of do on a scenic route, before I let you off the hook, tell people where they can find you if they're like oh yes, I want to work with Christine. Where do you hang out online?
Christine Lieu:yeah, you can definitely find me. You can continue chatting about an upcoming exciting project together at christineldesignscom, or I'm usually hanging out on Instagram, primarily also at underscore C-L-I-E-U.
Jennifer Walter:Perfect. We will link that in the show notes. And I've always one last question before I let my before anyone off, finally off the hook. What book are you currently reading or what audiobook you're listening to?
Christine Lieu:I'm reading. Actually, it was gifted by a friend of mine and fellow business owner. It's called the gap in the game and it's been so lovely and it's really helped to really, yeah, focus on the gains and the progress of things versus the gaps and scarcity that we sometimes fall into.
Jennifer Walter:So I'll just like read a chapter in the mornings to set the tone for my day, and it's been the perfect mix to wake up to. So this book goes on a Cinegraph book club list. So whenever you're like, okay, I'm through whatever I'm currently reading and I need new inspiration, go have a look, it will be linked there. The Gap and the Game. Oh, the Gap and the Game. The Gap and the Game. Yeah, yeah, I understood first the Gap and the Game. This doesn't make any sense enough, okay, so I'd say my brain is shutting off now.
Jennifer Walter:So, christine, again, thank you so much for being on the scenic route with me. Thank you so much for having me and, just like that, we've reached the end of another journey together on the scenic route podcast. Thank you for spending time with us, curious for more stories or in search of the resources mentioned in today's episode. Visit us at scenicrootpodcastcom for everything you need and if you're ready to embrace your scenic root, I've got something special for you. Step off the beaten path with my Scenic Root Affirmation Card Deck. It's crafted for those moments when you're seeking here, and I look forward to seeing you on the scenic route again.
