Thank You, Fear: Transforming Anxiety into Empowerment feat. Jana Osta

Ever wondered how fear shapes your reality and what it takes to overcome it? Discover how to turn fear and anxiety into powerful tools for personal growth and success. In this empowering episode of The Scenic Route Podcast, host Jennifer Walter and guest Jana Osta, a hypnotherapist and Kundalini yoga teacher, explore practical strategies for managing anxiety, trusting intuition, and finding balance in life.

Key Highlights:

• Understanding fear: Learn about the evolutionary purpose of fear and how it manifests in modern life (02:14)
• Mindfulness techniques: Explore the 5-4-3-2-1 grounding exercise and 4-7-8 breathing technique for anxiety relief (23:45)
• Intuition and decision-making: Discover how to tap into your gut feelings and make empowered choices (35:52)
• Balancing energies: Find harmony between structure (masculine) and flow (feminine) in daily life (43:03)
• Practical flow exercises: Get actionable tips to incorporate more spontaneity into your routine (48:47)
• Relationships and control: Learn how applying flow principles can lead to more authentic connections (54:12)

Why Listen:

• Gain a fresh perspective on transforming fear and anxiety into personal growth tools
• Learn easy-to-implement techniques for stress management and grounding
• Discover how to make empowered decisions by tapping into your intuition
• Explore the balance between structure and flow in your daily life
• Get inspired to embrace spontaneity and trust life's process

Connect with Jana Osta
Website
Instagram
YouTube

Work with Jana
Don't miss Jana's offer for a free 45-minute breakthrough session to help you overcome obstacles and pursue your dreams!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Facing Fear
• 11:05 The Power of Self-Awareness and Inspiration
• 18:43 Mastering Fear Through Mindfulness and Awareness
• 28:31 Transforming Fear Through Mind-Body Techniques
• 33:18 Trusting Intuition and Taking Action
• 40:34 Balancing Masculine and Feminine Energies
• 48:47 Embracing Flow in Daily Life
• 58:59 Expressing Gratitude and Closing Journey

Transcript

Jennifer Walter: 0:00

Okay. So this week, my guest J and I, we're inviting maybe one of our most misunderstood friends. We're gonna invite our emotion fear. Yep, you heard that right. We're diving headfirst into the deep end of our own mindsets this week. I mean, we're talking about the wild rollercoaster ride that is our relationship with fear and why our brains decide to hit the panic button, sometimes at the very worst moments, and also the many flavors of fear, from full-blown phobias to those tiny whispers of doubt that seem to accompany us daily. But here's the thing, in true Cinegraph fashion, we're not just here to commiserate, we're diving into what's waiting for us on the other side when we actually face our fears head-on and spoiler it might just be better than you think. So you ready to be friends with your fear and how that could maybe be like the coolest power move ever. So hop on the scenic route. We promise to keep it real, make you laugh and definitely make you think. So your next aha, holy fuck, I can do. This moment is just around the bend. You coming

Jennifer Walter: 1:04

Hi and welcome to the Scenic Route podcast podcast where we believe in embracing life's journey with purpose, curiosity and a bit of potty humor.

Jennifer Walter: 1:11

One's own cool mom, and I'm always looking out for that perfect slice of gluten-free rhubarb pie. Every week, I get the joy of sitting down with dreamers and doers who dare to take the road less traveled in pursuit of their own magic. Together, we dive into the inspiring stories of soulful entrepreneurs and visionary leaders who boldly share their beliefs, lessons and fuck-ups. Excited, so am I. You're exactly where you're meant to be, and now let's take this conversation off the beaten track. Janna is a hypnotherapist and kundalini yoga teacher, dedicated to helping others break through limitations and reclaim their full potential. By empowering individuals to unlock their confidence and self-belief, she guides them towards living a life filled with joy and limitless possibilities. As a TEDx speaker and inspirational leader, janna integrates a holistic, embodied approach in all her work, blending yogic wisdom with modern self-mastery techniques to support profound personal transformation.

Jennifer Walter: 2:14

Man, I don't know about you, chana, but when I think back, there certainly were things where I'm like I'm not doing this and I gave myself some kind of bullshit reason not to do things. But when I look back, I would'm like I'm not doing this and I gave myself some kind of bullshit reason not to do things. But when I'm looking back, I would be like I actually just was fucking scared. So, from your end, how I think we're going to roll it up from the very beginning, like what is fear really, from like a psychological and also somatic point of view, and what's its purpose well, if we go back to our animal instinct, if you want you know fear, is this kind of like a warning sign when there's a perceived or actual threat right so if we go back again, like to the animal inside us, what the body and the mind want to do is protect, protect me, protect ourselves.

Jana Osta: 3:13

So when we perceive that there's an external threat, whether it's physical threat, so I hear a roar of a lion and there's this immediate trigger in my mind that exactly that, there's a possibility that I'm in danger, and it induces a physiological like my body shifts, my mind is alert and that is fear, because I'm scared that there's something that's gonna happen to me.

Jana Osta: 3:39

So it's a worry, it's a perceived threat that creates an emotional, biological, psychological reaction where my whole system is ready to help me be safe in case something, um, something is dangerous or something is about to happen to me. Now that's the animal side, right, and that is kind of like the, the more extreme side, a lion roaring. But fear can be totally different. It can be I'm going out with my friends and I have social anxiety and I'm scared of going out. So there's a perceived threat that I'm gonna be judged or so on, so forth, and again my body is perceiving a threat and it's creating the same, almost the same psychological, physiological reaction that it might even have, if you heard the lion roaring. So there's many different types of fears, many different reasons we could feel fear, but at the essence of it, it is our system protecting us from a perceived or real threat. I would say a lot of times it's perceived and it's not true.

Jennifer Walter: 4:50

I thought like, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna go into perceived right.

Jana Osta: 4:53

Yeah, because we're not we're not, uh, surrounded by lions right, but we're always. Most of us are not, but we're constantly perceiving that we are.

Jennifer Walter: 5:07

Yeah, exactly. So I'm curious how then does, like we said, okay, fear has kind of like an evolutionary purpose. It once was really important to make us cautious and slow down and be like on high alert for real threats. Yes, high alert for real threats, yes. So how does this like evolutionary purpose align or conflict with our modern lives? Like, as you said, we're not surrounded by lions but at the same time, I feel so many of us are in almost a chronic state of fear? Yes, 100.

Jana Osta: 5:44

So so first let's recognize that, thank you. Fear like imagine if there was no fear and we were keeping you safe exactly.

Jana Osta: 5:53

We were never scared. So that is the purpose of it. Right, and it has a purpose. And without fear, we would be just so careless and we would take too many risks beyond what is needed. Right, but when it, when it starts to become limiting is when we're not recognizing the truth that we are constantly in an imagined fear state. So we're constantly worrying about things that could happen very small probability, whether it's fear of what if I die? What if I fail? What if I'm judged? What if I'm rejected? What if I'm so on, so forth it's endless right, constantly worrying about things that could happen because of, possibly, things we've experienced in the past. So we're constantly living in a worry state and not living in reality, what is really happening. And this is when fear starts to stand in the way, because it's just an imagined state and it's no longer real. So this is where our role becomes in what is real and what is imagined here, which brings me to the follow-up question.

Jennifer Walter: 7:07

For so many of us I know before I don't I really dove in and to mindset work and and really also somatic work and change work.

Jennifer Walter: 7:22

It was hard to distinguish to actually see that I'm in a worry state, right, because it felt so normal to worry about all these things and to be fearful of all these things, and it felt like it's my character right, like I've been doing it forever, which, like it's my character right, like I've been doing it forever, which and it took quite a lot of work to be realized. No, actually it's not. I'm not. For some there might be more cautious as a character type per se, but it wasn't. It was not my character, it wasn't me. How can we start to feel into is it? Am I just really like a cautions person? Yeah, or how can we distinguish? Oh, no, I'm actually in a worry state all the time and it's not something I want or something that is supporting me yeah, oh, I love this so much.

Jana Osta: 8:30

I feel like, oh, okay, let's get into it yeah, so serving here.

Jana Osta: 8:34

So yeah, so exactly what you're saying is really important, because what you're saying is like you're almost protecting an identity that has been created, and that identity has been created to keep you safe again, right. So growing up, we create an identity and we want to we, the mind wants to as much as possible, protect the identity that we have created, because that identity is what is known to us doesn't mean known equals safe. Known equals safe doesn't mean that it's equal to good, or my higher self or my best self, as in my known could be. I'm in a constant state of stress and worry and I don't believe in myself that would be my known yeah or I am.

Jennifer Walter: 9:24

I am overeating, I am over drinking, I'm that's my way out of, yeah, regulating yeah exactly so.

Jana Osta: 9:32

I create a persona, an identity. We let's call it the ego, right, and we're constantly the ego is constantly wanting to identify that this is me, this is my story, don't take it away from me and it starts to feel safe, even if it it has a lot of kind of negative charge to it. Let's say so. The moment you want to do something outside that safe box is the moment fears start to really come up and is the moment where you start to feel like I'm daring to think outside the box, I'm daring to say that this is not me, and then you really start to feel this kind of fear coming up, doubt coming up, and our role is to actually take a step back and look what is in that identity that I've created serving me really and what is not serving me.

Jana Osta: 10:29

So the first step is to look at what identity have you created for yourself growing up, throughout your childhood, adulthood, what have you been creating to yourself? As we were just saying, I am the person who one, two, three out of that that creation. What is really serving me? Oh, actually, this is not really serving me. I know I grew up um hearing I'm not good enough, but I'm sick of repeatedly saying that is that really serving my higher good? So questioning the identity and then realizing that I can create a new identity, I can create a new way of being. I don't know if that's answering, if we take a step back to look at your question or where we were going with this, but first it's really recognizing what are you identifying with and how is it serving you. You have to recognize that what you're identifying with might not be good for you 100%.

Jennifer Walter: 11:24

I feel it always starts with that and if you, if you're not new to the scenic ride podcast always starts with self-awareness, like I mean, we're a broken record at this point, but it's just, it's just the case and it and it's not. There's no magic bullet to like go from like a fear mindset to like an abundance or purpose mindset or kind of like swift it. It really starts with that and I feel it's so interesting that you brought up, yeah, like the identifying of the self and what you really want and what. What do you really like stand for? And we're also seeing how fear is being used to influence, to.

Jennifer Walter: 12:32

We're scared of something or when someone markets to us with a sense of fear that we're like, oh yeah, oh fear, okay, I don't want to be this, so I'm gonna buy this product, only to realize it's actually didn't help me at all. Right, so I think it's really interesting to bring the value component into it and to really see, okay, what is my identity, and not let fear, your own fear or the fear that is applied on to you, steer you away from that yeah.

Jana Osta: 13:07

So again, like you said it's, it's really going back to a deep sense of self-awareness, of deep sense of self-awareness of what is kind of holding me back and what is really holding me back. Is it a real threat or is it a perceived, imagined threat? And sometimes you know marketing schemes yes, I mean, they're selling to us our fears, like are you sick of procrastination and are you sick of feeling judged and this and that, and do you want to?

Jennifer Walter: 13:42

do you want to get more, more, more like dominant, prominent, dominantly in sense of? Do you want to be like a lazy slob?

Jana Osta: 13:53

okay, yeah, yeah, it's really. Yeah, it's really psychological, playing on pain, pain points and so on, and sometimes we do need that push. Sometimes we do need that person who's like, ah, are you like done with this and you want to take that step forward? Um, but I agree, there's a bit of an ethical question there.

Jennifer Walter: 14:13

To question when it comes to I don't know. I'm also interesting if we do, if we do need that that sort of push. I agree, everyone is different and for for some this might actually be the push, but that push probably also ultimately has to come from yourself. Yes, and not externally. Yes, right, because otherwise I don't know, I don't think it's gonna gonna lead to lasting change. If yes if otherwise like possible it's always a self-initiation.

Jana Osta: 14:49

I guess sometimes we need an inspiration because again, I like the word yeah.

Jennifer Walter: 14:54

I prefer the word inspiration. That resonates with me exactly.

Jana Osta: 14:58

So someone inspires you that whoa, they were able to go from that state of fear, anxiety or being held back to actually believing in themselves or creating some change in their life. And why we need that is because, again, the mind needs reassurance that it's okay for me to leave that identity that I've created and to start to identify with something new that can be for me so unknown, so different and feel so unsafe, but that it's okay, it's just a perceived threat. So the mind can feel more at ease when it's inspired by seeing other people create change. And this is where kind of inspiration helps, by us following people who are creating change in areas that we feel scared in taking steps forward. And this is why community is important. But again, it should be a positive approach.

Jana Osta: 15:46

I totally agree, and the decision to create change has to come from the person. But you can inspire people. You can inspire your friends, your family, and you can say, hey, like I'm doing it. Yeah, if you want to inspire someone to create change, rather than telling them to do it, you do it yourself.

Jennifer Walter: 16:03

Show them the results, inspire them, yeah and they're ready, they will oh 100, and I think it's also inspiration, and that's also where we see, or where I believe, representation truly matters, right, if you see someone who looks like you? And they're doing it.

Jennifer Walter: 16:22

It's much stronger if, as if you see someone that it looks nothing like you doing it right, like if you yet again see someone who is really like a blueprint of western beauty standards doing something. It might not, it doesn't relate to you as much as if someone I don't know with a darker skin tone or a fat person who does something and you're like oh yes, holy fuck, yes, if she does it, I can do too. So I see like the inspiration and representation is really closely tied together yeah, because we want to be really.

Jana Osta: 17:03

We don't know that it's also possible for us. So when someone is mirroring it, you're like, oh wow, they're the same as me and they were able to do it, so I can so totally agree. You want to find people like. So often, the people you end up working with, whether it's coaches or therapists or like healers in general, probably resonate with you on a certain level, on a like. They have a similar story or a similar background, because you believe more that you can do it now that they have it's all mind.

Jennifer Walter: 17:33

It's all mind work really yeah, which, again, if you're listening in and you're our healer, this is actually also the reason why your authenticity is. Is your your secret sauce or your magic bullet. Comfortable you become with sharing parts of your unique story, the more common ground your potential clients can find to be like oh, actually, yes, I can relate to this person because I feel if they're so far out of touch, if they're completely unrelatable, I won't work with those people. Like I don't hire people, like I never hired a coach or anyone. Yes, they must be aspiring to me, but if they're completely aloof, I'm like no, that there's too, the gap is too big.

Jennifer Walter: 18:25

Like I don't think that's gonna work totally um, we're gonna circle back for work, but we had it come up a few times, the distinction you've made between perceived threat and real or Real. Let's say real threat, it's still real, even if it's just perceived, because the mind doesn't really differentiate between that, as we've learned, like from your client work and your expertise. What are there telltale signs that can give us a pointer if our fear is perceived, imaginary or not, or doesn't it matter?

Jana Osta: 19:12

yeah, I would say definitely. You know, again it goes back to am I scared of something that would happen in the future? Like that's often the the key question.

Jennifer Walter: 19:25

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, yes, love it right, am I?

Jana Osta: 19:29

in this moment getting uh like an I'll give an example there was a point where I really used to have a fear of flying, like going on airplanes, like I would get anxiety, forget the details, but for many different reasons I would really get panic attacks on airplanes. And how I dealt with it was really by asking myself is again, is this a real? What I'm about? Like I'm worried that we'll have a car crash, god forbid like a plane crash, what's the possibility of that actually happening? Actually, if you look it up, it's very low, like maybe less than a percent percentage. So what is this Again questioning? So what's the possibility of this actually happening? Am I worrying about something that's right now happening? Like, is it happening? Are the oxygen masks down? Is it happening? No, so I'm worrying about something in the future. Right, that could happen, very low probability.

Jana Osta: 20:26

So the moment I realize that it's not happening, it's not now, I can question the validity of it. Is it really going to happen? Then I could question so what if it does? Right? So if it does, what can I do about it? Okay, I can do one, two, three right, so I can already support myself in relaxing in the moment that, even if the low probability happen, this is what I can do with it. So I would say step one is really taking a step back and checking in. Are you worried about something that is real or imagined? Really and if it's imagined, it means it's not happening right now, it's just something that could happen in the future and then questioning that this is a good point really the future, the future component and realizing I am in this moment in time, I am safe exactly right now, in this moment, and you know what, in the present moment you're always safe.

Jana Osta: 21:27

In the present moment you're always fine. Most of the time again, all fears, most of fears.

Jennifer Walter: 21:34

Unless there's a lion right next to you, then tell you you're not safe, unless your plane is crashing down, or exactly like immediate emergency.

Jana Osta: 21:42

Exactly, then then okay, in this moment there's things you can still do. This is why, okay, then what I can run, I can, you know, fight, you know there's things you can still do, even when there's actual threat. But in moment, most of the times, I'm 100 safe. I'll find support around me, I'll find a way to calm down, I'll find a way to navigate this. In the moment, most of times it's safe. So a key technique, actually, if you experience panic attacks or anxiety, which are very common reactions to fear, right, panic anxiety, severe kind of physical, physiological changes in the body where you really feel, sometimes like you're having a heart attack it could be that severe is to come back to the present moment, and the way to do that is actually just connecting to your senses.

Jennifer Walter: 22:30

So, again, look around you yeah, oh that, yeah, yeah, that reminds me of I did I used to do before I was diagnosed with postpartum depression. I I always had this weird anxiety flashes like I don't know really weird stuff, like the the stroller with my newborn would fly over the bridge, like you know, like really like that could never happen. So I newborn would fly over the bridge, like you know, like really like that could never happen. So I wouldn't walk over that bridge because this could happen, bonkers. But I remember my, my, my psychotherapist, she at the time she told me the, the four, five, four, three, two, one technique yes, exactly Right.

Jennifer Walter: 23:13

I had to yeah, you, you're, you, you're. That's reminded you.

Jana Osta: 23:19

Yeah, I love it exactly and I love the example you gave. In the moment, if you come to your senses, find five things that you can see, four things I I don't remember which sense related to which numbers. I think it's four things. You can hear three things. You can um, maybe touch, yeah, touch yeah, two things you can smell and one thing you can taste yeah, because taste is the hardest.

Jennifer Walter: 23:45

So taste is one, yeah, yeah, I always, would always mix up four and three, two it is your touch or here and I'm gonna go, but it doesn't matter.

Jana Osta: 23:53

Basically, exactly irrespective the whole goal of this exercise and I never, I always use it and never remember, because I end up just doing like, just don't do anything you can taste, because then you really need all you only have like five tastes or something.

Jana Osta: 24:08

Yeah, the point is, this is what mindfulness is right. The point is, in the moment, you're becoming in touch, mindful of what is real. So what's real is what you can smell, what you can see, what you can actually feel. And you can do it now if you're listening, by the way, like, look around you, what can you see, what are you smelling, what are you tasting, what do you feel on your skin? Um, all of that, what are you hearing in the background? And you'll notice, if you do this for just a minute or two, you are, you feel so peaceful because you are so present. You feel so much peace and calmness and in, in that state of calmness, you look around you and you're like, oh, life is good. And how crazy was I to think that? You know, my baby is gonna fly.

Jennifer Walter: 24:58

Yeah, now looking back, I'm like what, but it made so much sense in my brain and that's your, that's your instinct, right, that's your motherly instinct.

Jana Osta: 25:09

Again, that's, you know, an imagined story, but you are anticipating something that on some level could maybe happen, and you are anticipating so that to protect your baby, because you love your baby. So again, thank you, fear.

Jennifer Walter: 25:25

And I will say thank you, fear for doing your best to protect me and caring, but right now I'm okay, I am safe is there another like technique that, besides the four, five, four, three, two, one that you really like doing, when you realize oh okay, my like, my nervous system is like yeah, so.

Jana Osta: 25:50

so there's different techniques and I would say we can look at it as mind and body right. So if we take one per each, so for the mind it's very important Because, again, a lot of this is happening in the mind. Again it's the mind playing, imagining.

Jennifer Walter: 26:06

Yeah, the mind is giving you the scenario and then the body is reacting to it, because the body doesn't know if it's real or not.

Jana Osta: 26:12

Exactly, that is one way. Yes, so you could again question your mind. So remember that you are not the mind right and the mind is just a tool, so you don't need to accept everything the mind is giving you. So if my mind is giving me again, let's take another example for people who want to step out of the comfort zone, maybe take a step towards a dream, and then they imagine themselves failing, not making money poor living under the bridge, living under the bridge, losing everyone and no one likes them anymore and judging them and being judged and all of that, and then questioning right, questioning the mind.

Jana Osta: 26:52

So instead of saying oh my god, and entertaining that and that becomes like a circle and you're affirming you get that loop, that endless loop of exactly yeah, and I affirm it and yes, and oh my god, I'm gonna be judged and it's impossible. And then your words are affirming it, and then you're telling your friends it's too scary, and everyone's affirming it's like becomes like it's become self-filling prophecy and you're it's doing exactly and eventually it becomes true because you're affirming it instead.

Jana Osta: 27:19

Actually you can talk to your mind and you can almost catch it. I always say catch the mind and I love. Actually, I just snap my fingers. I literally like, just like the moment I catch my mind playing games, I just snap my fingers and that's my cue, that, hey, I've got you.

Jana Osta: 27:39

I caught you trying to play that game. I'm not going to entertain that because just you're imagining something that's unrealistic, that's probably based on some weird childhood stuff that's happening there. I'm not going to accept it and instead I'm going to dictate to my mind what is the reality is that I'm amazing, I'm empowered, I'm resourceful, I have support. Again, you can feed your mind with the truth and if you're not sure what that is, write it down. What are your powers, your gifts, the support system that's surrounding?

Jennifer Walter: 28:11

Oh, that reminds me One of my coaches. Thank you, jessicaica. Once made me write a list of 50 things I love about myself and it could not have been achievement okay amazing, like wow, so exactly.

Jana Osta: 28:26

So, um, really write things like about your powers, about the positive things. Right, the moment you catch the mind, you can feed it with something else. Look at that. How this?

Jennifer Walter: 28:39

is a proof.

Jana Osta: 28:40

How can you tell me that I'm gonna fail? And look at this. So this is, you know, affirmations. I'm sure I know you have. Maybe a lot of people have heard of affirmations and this is affirmations. It's this positive affirmations is feeding the mind with positive messages to reinforce the true story, not the imagined fear. That takes practice. It's not an overnight thing. You can practice doing it every night before you sleep. Write three, four affirmations that are positive, that uplift you. You can do it in the morning or you can constantly be practicing it, even in your day-to-day life. When you snap your fingers and catch the mind. That's the mind.

Jennifer Walter: 29:16

That's a mind tool. I love the snapping. I'm totally for the snapping. I'm going to incorporate this.

Jana Osta: 29:21

I love it.

Jennifer Walter: 29:21

Snapping and mind Exactly. Don't trust my employee. I'm the boss.

Jana Osta: 29:28

Yes, 100%, love it Really.

Jennifer Walter: 29:32

Let the mind be your servant, almost like my mind is my servant, your mind is your employee, not your boss.

Jana Osta: 29:39

Like hey no, and you can say it out loud, like sometimes I literally like what am I entertaining here? Hey, no, so powerful. The other part is the body and, yes, the body can be a reaction to the mind, but the body can also hold memories on its own. So sometimes let's say we see something or someone and it triggers us maybe even before a mental level because of an old memory.

Jana Osta: 30:06

So, if there, was any time in your life where you felt whether it's triggered or unsafe, in, uh, in with certain kind of people or in certain environments. Then as an adult, when you are faced in similar environments, the body holds that memory and gets triggered immediately. Okay, so the body can also impact the mind and say, oh my god, this is not safe environment, but it is a per se. It's also perceived based on old memories. So this is where you know somatics come in place and that we need to also help the body release fear and stress and tension. And there's many tools for that and it could be through shaking to literally like shaking off tension.

Jana Osta: 30:58

There's a lot of movement practices, conscious movement practices. Breath work is an amazing kind of tool to help you create shift in your biological system. But to keep it like simple for now, for anyone listening and it's very new to this if you are in a moment where your body is like, suddenly I'm like, what is this like? My body is shifting into this fight, flight state and I'm not even aware of it. Long, deep breathing scientifically proven, research-based and is the oldest yogic technique. Just bring your hands towards your belly, inhale, expand the belly out, exhale, bring the belly in that activates your parasympathetic nervous system, which is your rest and recover system, and your body receives a message that I am safe and sends it to the mind that I am safe. But do it for three to five minutes. I've struggled with anxiety in my life and 478 technique. I don't know if you know it, but I'll explain. But do it for three to five minutes. I've struggled with anxiety in my life and four, seven, eight technique. I don't know if you know it, but I'll explain very briefly.

Jennifer Walter: 32:01

In for four, hold for seven, out for eight. That's it.

Jana Osta: 32:04

Four, seven, eight. In for four through the nose, hold and then exhale from the mouth. For eight, okay, do this for three minutes. It saved my life many times. Like really, really for eight, okay do this for three minutes.

Jennifer Walter: 32:19

It saved my life many times like, yeah, really, really amazing technique, yeah, it's really powerful. And I remember when I first I don't yeah well, my first introduction to cut to breathwork, and I was like, oh okay, this is so complicated with like I mean, of course, also like advanced techniques and stuff, but basically I've once then had a practitioner explain it like say to me look, basically you just need to exhale longer than you inhale. That's basically it. I'm like, okay, this sounds simple, I can do that exactly don't complicate it.

Jana Osta: 32:53

There's many techniques yeah, four, seven, eight of course I would say for for the topic topic of fear, anxiety, all of that if you are in a moment where you feel like your body is out of control four, seven, eight, wow and if you do that while you're doing the affirmation I am safe, exhale, I am safe, I'm supported, I'm enough. Oh my god, it just changes things around with minutes, really. I've tried that.

Jennifer Walter: 33:20

I kind of, yeah, tried that, god been there, done that and that's the body and mind.

Jennifer Walter: 33:27

And there's many tools, but honestly, like, just start there and you'll already see a huge shift that's, I think, this really good advice to so for anyone listening in, if you ever find yourself back into a more acute state, a situation of anxiety or fear, either for five, four, one, five, four, three, two, one god can I count or 4, 7, 8, whatever speaks more to you, um, go do that, keep it in your toolbox. Um, so I, I what you've really, I like what you said before, like like play it in your mind when like what would happen, right, and then kind of counteracted.

Jennifer Walter: 34:13

So let's, let's go from there and be like okay we learned, like how fear can shape our decision making process right, like how we have say something, perceive something as a threat because we don't want to like, usually it's something like that. Is that a threat that threatens our identity of self, our roles in identity, or roles and identities in our groups of, and our belonging? Basically, how can we? What is the the the ideal balance of fear, letting giving fear its place in the decision making process? Right, I mean, I don't want anyone to do something truly reckless.

Jana Osta: 35:02

Right, I feel fear has its place, but we're often it's really hard to dial it in, just right I love that, um, and yeah, again going back to thank you, fear, right, because we need a bit of fear. And um, we need to find that balance, and I guess that balance comes back to a lot of the mix between the rational mind and intuition, right. So, rationally, really looking at what's the real risk here and if there's, again, this is where you have to look at the negatives and maybe writing things down, even, especially if you're taking big decisions in your life like leaving your job, like leaving your job or you know.

Jana Osta: 35:52

Again, decisions, but also in the moment decisions. Do I say yes to this or do I say no? My friends are telling me to go on this crazy last minute trip. Ok, and sometimes you don't know, you maybe perceive a few risks and you're going to have to weigh them and you're going to have to take a moment or two to actually look at those risks and look at the opportunities at the same time. So always looking at those risks and look at the opportunities at the same time. So always looking at the positive and negative. But then coming back to what we call the neutral mind, which is kind of seeing things for what they are, okay, and trying labels not, yeah, bad, yeah, be like the judge who's kind of seeing the reality for what it is and kind of saying this is the verdict like this is my yes right I see things for what they are the risk and then I decide.

Jana Osta: 36:37

But I would say intuition plays a big role here and most of the times, within seconds, you probably already know if something is good for you or not, if something's going to be harmful for you or not. But you need to be really in tune with your intuition and most of the times intuition is speaking to you through the body actually. So when something is really so, that's gut feeling.

Jana Osta: 37:00

That's gut feeling and within seconds you know when someone says come on, let's go, I don't know, to the party or whatever I'm just giving an example. But something is like oh, like I don't know right, you need to trust that voice. That if, like I don't know right, you need to trust that voice, that if there's a voice in you that's telling you careful there, or you're getting that in your belly, you feel that a bit like maybe your back that clump I have a clump, yeah, a clump right.

Jana Osta: 37:25

Don't ignore that. We've been so trained to ignore that right and to just kind of like, just keep going, going with the flow. You need to trust what your gut is telling you and you need to practice trusting your intuition and when something is for you, even if it's scary, your heart's gonna open, you're gonna be like yes you're gonna be like hell yes, let's do it.

Jana Osta: 37:47

You're gonna feel excited. You're gonna feel like, oh my god, even though this is scary, I wanna do it. It feels good, it feels exciting, it feels like the opportunity outweighs the risk and I'm ready to take it. So your body is gonna tell you hell yes. Or it's gonna tell you take time with this one. So you need to be so intuitive and in touch with yourself. You already already know, like within seconds I would say, what is really scary and what is like yeah, you get the point yeah, I do and I have.

Jennifer Walter: 38:24

There's one thing I want to talk before what I briefly mentioned before. I'm gonna go into intuition a bit more. I think what about, though, that tricky little spot between you, feel your intuition? You have this gut reaction of yes or no. That's immediate. I agree. If you're tuned in, this is immediate. What I feel is tricky is the next step. The longer it takes you, or it takes me, from acknowledging my intuition to action, the more time my mind has to go. So this critical period how can we hold ourselves there? Because the mind usually is that like gives you all the reasons why you should go to the party or you shouldn't go to the party.

Jana Osta: 39:24

Like it's good for networking or it's really bad idea because whatever, yeah, yeah, you know like I'm going to give an answer, but I want to say that it all takes practice. For sure it's not something that I think overnight we can achieve, but it is that idea of holding our power. You know, when we know something is good or right for us, you know there's this energy in your solar plexus, it's right above your belly button, it's your power center, that when you know something is good for you, you're going to step into it even if no one else is. And when you know that something is bad for you, if everyone else is going, you're going to say no. And that takes confidence and self-empowerment and you really trusting and believing in yourself, trusting yourself before anything and anyone outside. And I would say that takes a bit of practice, but it is really that fiery energy that is right there in your center, in your core, and you can practice that energy that is right there in your center, in your core and you can practice that. You can practice that physically, like by strengthening your actual core, but also energetically, by tuning into my power, my voice, my kind of like.

Jana Osta: 40:34

I know I set boundaries, that's even when my mind, I've taken my decision, like I felt this is wrong for me. I'm not gonna take the risk and my mind's like come on, like they're all going like this one. You're, you're going to be like that mom. Almost it's like, hey, I said no is a no and I'm holding that, so hold yourself. It's like holding yourself, holding your decision, holding onto it, and that comes from a deep sense of trust in self and practicing empowerment and holding yourself together. But you're not shaken by external things because you're really holding you're really rooted, you're really rooted and grounded and I agree with you.

Jana Osta: 41:16

That's why I said I'm gonna say it, but to mention that, yes, that takes practice, but I feel like the more you practice that I found that in my 30s it became so easy, in my 20s it was so hard because obviously yeah.

Jana Osta: 41:30

I'm still not sure and I don't care and I want to satisfy people and I don't have boundaries. But in my 30s, I mean within seconds. If something doesn't feel good, it's just to know is no one. I know it and I practice it and it's fun and honestly to empower yourself through it. I think physically, like really there's a physical aspect to it because there is a strength in the physical aspect, but it's also it's a daily practice of meditation and connection to yourself where, when things happen, where you are shaken off your ground, you can hold yourself together.

Jennifer Walter: 42:03

You're not losing yourself, you're holding yourself and also, like it's important, the more like like to have a gentle hold on yourself, because if you're too rigid, you're too, stiff. You cannot bounce back.

Jennifer Walter: 42:21

It's really, it's almost impossible right like I always think of, of, like tennis players, or serena williams, right when she's on the on the court, or she was on the court, she was so bouncy, so fluid, so flat, like if she would be like wicked, she couldn't move. So it's really hold yourself like that, that strength to ground yourself. It's, it's gentle in approach love it.

Jana Osta: 42:48

Yeah, right, I really love what you're saying. Yeah, it's. It's making me think of that, like balance between masculine and feminine, as well, right, oh, yeah, yeah and it's like we spoke about fire, like I was talking about fire and fire is masculine, right?

Jana Osta: 43:03

so in that moment where you need to be like no, I made my decision. Like that's fiery energy, that's masculine energy and then the feminine, the flow is water energy and that's inviting a bit of that flow. That, like I'll give an example, that's more maybe personal. I was someone who's very kind of strict with my routine and my habits and no, like I'm sleeping early so I can wake up early for my meditation. Again like very strict with my routine to a point because I love that sense of empowerment, but to a point where I started to notice how it's getting in the way of my social life. So I would challenge myself to every once in a while, say I'm not meditating today, actually I'm going out late. Instead, so inviting flow and flexibility. Again, you I think it's different from one person to the other and you tuning in to when is flow, when is flow needed, how flow can come in in the empowerment. It's a balance of the two and the more you have balance in the two, the more you are empowered actually.

Jennifer Walter: 44:06

That is such a good point it reminds me of I have every now and then I have a client coming to me. It's like oh, there's this problem, I have this problem with X, y, z. And when we talk it always often becomes clear it's not actually their problem. Someone else's perceives it as a problem. Right, it's only when you realize what you beautifully illustrated with your example of the meditations, right? It's only when you realize, oh actually, no, I want to be more flexible, I want to go out with my friends, I want to do other things, I don't want to be bound to my strict schedule. Then it's becoming a problem Only when you decide this is a problem, not when someone else decides it's a problem.

Jana Osta: 45:00

Yeah, and sometimes you can have fun with it. You as in, I'm like like I'm strict. Most of the time I'm a super capricorn, you know oh god, yes, giving me capricorn energy.

Jennifer Walter: 45:12

I'm like, I cannot. I'm a double gemini.

Jana Osta: 45:14

I cannot like I am out I'm like like I have a structure for everything love it.

Jana Osta: 45:21

sometimes it's really hard for me to flow and invite flexibility, so I challenge myself to go against the structure and I challenge myself to say, okay, let me just let go of all of the routine today and see how that feels. So, yeah, I love that this is coming up because it's it can be a challenge and for some people the challenge can be the opposite, as in they're too in the flow and letting go and sometimes they need to challenge themselves to go on a 10-day meditation challenge and that feels like whoa. So, again, noticing where you are in that balance and, like you're saying, you know, finding what you need and how you want to play with it and test it and go to the other extreme and see how that feels.

Jennifer Walter: 46:12

Oh, I feel for anyone listening in, this could be like a very good challenge, like challenge yourself maybe for the next seven days to every day. Look at like what do I need? Do I be more like? Do I need more fire energy? Do I need more capricorn energy? Or do I need more like water energy? And be like more fluid and flexible with with all the frigidness I've got, got going on with all my systems and just see and I mean, if you cannot drop your entire systems for the day, that's fine, but maybe I'm sure, if you're really honest, there's some, at least something every day you can be either more flex or more strict about.

Jana Osta: 46:44

Yeah, and if I could say that most of us, most of us, because of the system, we are more rewarded to be in fire. Masculine energy.

Jennifer Walter: 46:53

Oh, yes, I mean we're, yeah, love this late stage capitalism, yeah, so the biggest.

Jana Osta: 47:01

I feel like the biggest challenge for most people would be to be more flow, feminine allowance. And that's an ongoing journey for me of learning. But I'm really learning that the more you practice it again, go to the extreme of letting go, surrendering, flowing the more that in the moment you would know like we were going back to intuition and trusting and knowing how to hold it. You would know that in this moment I can let go and invite flow or in this moment I need to hold myself together and bring in that masculine. But I've been training the masculine for way too long. So train the feminine, train the flow, so that in the moment you'll be able to instantaneously kind of lean on the energy that is needed and that takes practice. Again, it's really a lot of practice but it's a beautiful exploration, I would say.

Jennifer Walter: 47:47

I would say okay, let's, let's, let's course correct on the challenge. Let's do a seven day challenge where we kind of course correct the masculine and retrain the flow I would say so yeah, that sounds great.

Jennifer Walter: 48:01

Like what could you get like for inspiration? Could you give us like a handful of examples how that could look like? Like it's yeah and usually I remember from what similar work I've done like it's incredibly small. Right, some things are incredibly small and that is okay. Even maybe they have to be. If you're, if you've never done this and you're like already like I don't know, having cold sweats when you think about it, then you have to go even smaller. But what? What could be like five ways to train for flow every day so what I would say first about flow and and I love where this is going this- conversation has evolved so beautifully.

Jana Osta: 48:47

So, what I would say first about flow is you can start with a structure but then allow yourself to flow in the structure. So let's say, for example, let's go back to a meditation routine. Ok, I love meditating, so, if I have, I meditate every day. Instead of saying every day I'm going to meditate and it's going to be 20 minutes and I'm going to be at 7 am sharp on my mat meditating and this is how I'm going to do it.

Jennifer Walter: 49:10

No.

Jana Osta: 49:11

Instead, I'm going to say I'm meditating, but maybe today it's a walking meditation and I'm just inviting mindfulness. Maybe tomorrow my meditation is that I'm eating without the TV on, so I'm keeping my meditation. Is that I'm eating without the tv on, so I'm keeping my meditation structure, but I'm allowing for spontaneity in how it's happening. That's a small example. If you don't feel like you're letting go, I'm ditching meditation and I'm flowing no, it's not about.

Jana Osta: 49:39

It's about allowing for spontaneity. Another way is, for example, again like maybe today I'm not gonna clean the dishes at night, but I'm gonna clean the dishes when I feel energy and I feel good about putting some music on. So I'm gonna wait and see if there's another moment in the day where I feel more inspired to make the dishes. So again, it's not about feeling like I have to do something now or just mindlessly doing the dishes, because you're always doing the dishes.

Jana Osta: 50:08

Yes, exactly it's moving away from, like I have to do it now or else this masculine linear way to the dishes will be done, and I'll do it when it feels like the right moment yeah um, let's, if you want, let's have more concrete examples.

Jana Osta: 50:25

More concrete examples is especially for creative people or business owners, but also, if like, if you have a passion, let's say it's, instead of forcing tasks. So, for example, let's say I like to write, so instead of saying tomorrow I'm going to wake up early in the morning and write that thing, that I've been wanting to sit and write an article or a blog post or whatever it is, instead of that linear, forcing masculine energy, I'm just going to say I really feel like writing. I'm going to let go and see when's a good moment in the week where I'm inspired to write, and I just let go. And instead of following a structure, let go. And instead of following a structure, I just invite flow and maybe I go for a walk and while I'm walking I get inspired and I take my phone and write that blog post within minutes. It wasn't the moment.

Jennifer Walter: 51:15

So, again, instead of putting structure on tasks, putting an intention for a task that in the next week, somewhere, I'm gonna write, write an amazing article and I'm going to feel when the right moment for that is yeah that's beautiful, because the flow only comes when you're I know for me, when I'm feeling good, when I'm taken care of, when I'm full, when I'm like excited, happy, joyful, when I have moved my body, when I've slept enough, like when I know it kind of like will fall into place.

Jana Osta: 51:53

Yeah, and I would say flow has a lot to do with feeling. That's like emotions again water emotions, feeling feminine. So it's about feeling what do I need in the moment? Versus forcing because I said that I will work on this now. I said I will do this now and I have to. Moving to what do I feel I want to do right now, what do?

Jennifer Walter: 52:15

I need.

Jana Osta: 52:16

What do I need in this moment? Or a walk, and then letting go that, even though it feels stressful to take a break for two hours and go for the longest walk on a Monday, right Trusting that in that something magical could happen. I could meet someone, I could get inspired by a new creative idea, I could feel rejuvenated, things could happen. And that is flow, is feeling what I need every moment and leaning into that. I know that could be hard, because we all have oh it goes, it goes completely against the way the system condition does right.

Jana Osta: 52:55

It's revolutionary actually to be in flow it's really not easy, but we can practice simple, simple ways, simple ways and eventually you might be just living in flow and magic happening all the time I, I remember, I I like when we also had to one of the first steps back when we fought.

Jennifer Walter: 53:18

We said um processes, sequences and time. So instead of saying oh we'll all, I don't know, every morning at six o'clock I would meditate. It would just become every morning before breakfast I would meditate, right so, whether I would get up at six o'clock or at eight or nine, nine, what am I? What am I kidding? I have a five-year-old never getting up at nine, so like it's just letting go of time because it doesn't every every I don't know the same as like every day, dinner is at six. Like no, no, yeah and you're like disconnecting the timeline I love that.

Jana Osta: 54:12

I know, jen, like.

Jana Osta: 54:13

One amazing example I love is relationships, especially if someone's dating, because we love to control and the moment yes, yeah, like masculine, is all about control, like a masculine energy, is about controlling my schedule, my time, what I'm doing, when and who, how I'm doing it and is. And in relationships, a lot of us, you know, want to control, like no, this has to go this way and I don't know, and why did it end the way I wanted as maximum control. But when you actually let flow as in, how am I really feeling about this? What I want to do today with this, tomorrow can be different. What if I allow things to move and let the natural course of things kind of happen on their own without me wanting to control the outcome? Letting go of controlling the outcome of what's meant to be and how this person is meant to be in touch with me and things evolving is also a beautiful way to just be in your feminine power in the moment present, enjoying what is, without worrying and controlling the future. That is also feminine flow.

Jennifer Walter: 55:15

There's so many examples oh, they're beautiful and it's really beautiful. I think it's a really beautiful notion to end this podcast. What the words you just said? Like it. Whatever is kind of like meant for you, is meant for you and yeah, there's this, there's a song, whatever will be will be right like it's and just kind of like yeah. So we'll challenge you to find more flow in the teeny, tiny nooks and corners of your life. Start small and see where it leads you yeah, and to lead it to fear.

Jana Osta: 55:51

You know that is the most beautiful way to let go of fear, because when you're surrendering to what is the moment and you're trusting and you're allowing, there's nothing to be really scared of, you're just present with what is.

Jennifer Walter: 56:04

So that is oh, we've came full circle. So this yeah, oh, jana, this is. This has been brilliant. I think we have said everything there is to say we came beautifully full circle. Uh, I feel we leave super inspired and hopeful, and this is always, I don't know, my aim for every episode to not have like a doom doom episode, but always kind of like leave on a aspiring note. Yes, so if people want to hear more from you, where can they find you online?

Jana Osta: 56:38

tell us so my handle on instagram is the best place to follow me at. Tune in with j, with Jenna, that's the best way to reach out to me for any questions or inspiration as well.

Jennifer Walter: 56:49

You'll be very welcome on my page perfect, and I know you have a lovely little offer for everyone tuning in a breakthrough session. Do you want to tell us a bit about it?

Jana Osta: 57:03

yes, this is an opportunity for anyone who is experiencing kind of feeling that stuck in their comfort zone or just experiencing a lot of fear, self-doubt about moving into your passion, your dream, taking steps forward in your life. 45 minute free breakthrough session, which just entails you tapping into what is holding you back and creating a plan forward for yourself. So let me know that you came from this podcast and we'll book your free breakthrough session.

Jennifer Walter: 57:36

We're going to link it in a show notes. So if at one point, dear listener, if at one point your mind went, yes, but Jonna, this is the sign to book, to book that session, I love it. Yes, but yes, but that's, that's, that's the telltale sign to book the session, believe me, I know. So I have one last question before I let everyone off the hook on these call, on these conversations what is, what book are you currently reading? Or what audiobook are you currently listening to?

Jana Osta: 58:10

Oh god, you know I'm always like reading 10 books at a time.

Jennifer Walter: 58:13

Yeah, I know the feeling and there's a different. I have two personalities the person who buys books and the person who actually reads them.

Jana Osta: 58:23

I know I'm always like, okay, I like this, but I want to start this new one and I'm reading like 10 at the same time. But one book that is really actually related to our last conversation is A Woman who Run With Wolves. Oh, that's a beautiful book, I'm really loving it, and it's really all about empowering ourselves to tune back into our intuition, trusting in our inner power, leaning into our feminine power. So if you're on this challenge with us to lean into the flow, that's a beautiful book.

Jennifer Walter: 58:54

That's the book club list. That's book club reading. Perfect, yes, it is Perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being on a scenic route with me, jana.

Jana Osta: 59:04

Thank you for having me, it was pure pleasure. Thanks a lot, jennifer.

Jennifer Walter: 59:10

And just like that, we've reached the end of another journey together on the Scenic Route Podcast. Thank you for spending time with us. Curious for more stories or in search of the resources mentioned in today's episode, visit us at scenicroutepodcastcom for everything you need and if you're ready to embrace your scenic route, I've got something special for you. Step off the beaten path with my scenic route affirmation card deck. It's crafted for those moments when you're seeking courage, yearning to trust your inner voice and eager to carve out a path authentically, unmistakably yours. Pick your scenic route affirmation today and let it support you. Excited about where your journey might lead? I certainly am. Remember, the scenic route is not just about the destination, but the experiences, learnings and joy we discover along the way. Thank you for being here and I look forward to seeing you on the scenic route again.