Lonely Hearts Club: Vanishing Third Spaces and Adult Friendships

In this episode, we're diving deep into the loneliness epidemic hitting millennials and Gen X harder than any generation before. Spoiler alert: it's not just your busy schedule or endless TikTok scrolling that's the problem.

What You'll Discover:

• The shocking stats about loneliness in your 30s and 40s (and why it's not just a 'you' problem)
• What the heck "third spaces", are and why their disappearance matter more than you think
• The real reason Nordic countries are winning at the friendship game (hint: it's not hygge)
• Practical strategies for building meaningful connections without adding more to your plate
• Why your local coffee shop might be more important than your Instagram feed

Featured Research:

• American Psychology Association's 2023 loneliness study
• Harvard Social Connection Lab findings
• Brené Brown's research on shame and connection
• Ray Oldenburg's "Third Places" concept

Ready to Break Free from the Lonely Hearts Club? Try our micro-connection challenge and start treating every interaction like it matters (because it does).

Free Resource:
Go online and pull your  free "Scenic Route Affirmation Card" for those moments when you need a reminder that you're not alone on this journey: https://www.jenniferwalter.me/scenic-route-affirmations

See you on the Scenic Route.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Loneliness in 30s & 40s
• 11:23 Reclaiming Community in Modern Society
• 25:36 Embracing the Scenic Route

Transcript

Jennifer Walter: 0:00

Hey, beautiful souls, welcome to the scenic route. I'm Jen and kind of like, let me paint a picture. I know you've been there too. Hey there, beautiful souls, welcome to the scenic route podcast. I'm Jen, and today we go where it hurts. So let me paint a picture. You're scrolling through Instagram at 11 pm watching stories of your old college friends, having these amazing college friends having these amazing bottomless brunches, and kind of like. You're having your gratitude journal out and you're like I'm grateful that my most meaningful conversation today was with my uber driver. Yeah, and if you're listening to this podcast and you're kind of like current if and you're hiding in your pantry or in the bathroom while tiny humans bang their little fists on the door, I see your mama, like I do. I really do so.

Jennifer Walter: 0:53

Today we're diving into something that nobody is posting about on social media because it kind of like it's not doesn't fit the glamorous narrative of Instagram, but, trust me, everyone's kind of feeling it. It's the epidemic of loneliness in your 30s and 40s. And before you reach for the second glass of wine or coffee, you can stick with me because we're about to unpack, not just why we're all feeling so disconnected, but how we can actually do something about it. There's a different way to think about mental health, and it starts with slowing down. Sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home, and that's exactly why we're taking the scenic route. Hi, I'm Jennifer Walter, host of the Scenic Route podcast. Think of me as your sociologist, sister in arms and rebel with many causes. Together, we're blending critical thinking with compassion, mental health with a dash of rebellion, and personal healing with collective change. We're trading perfectionism for possibility and toxic positivity for messy growth. Each week we're exploring the path to better mental health and social transformation and yes, by the way, pretty crystals are totally optional. You ready to take the scenic route? Let's walk this path together.

Jennifer Walter: 2:16

We're the generation that's supposedly more connected than ever, right? Yet here we are feeling lonely in a crowd. That's actually what shame researcher Brenny Brown calls it so, especially for my mom friends out there, it hits different when you're surrounded by tiny humans, 24-7, but secretly dying for a conversation that doesn't involve sleep schedules or poop colors. So let's dive right in. We've said we're living in this weird paradox time where we're more connected than ever, but somehow feeling more isolated than ever. Research shows that we're more connected than ever, but somehow feeling more isolated than ever. Research shows that we're feeling more isolated than our parents did at our age. But we'll get to that.

Jennifer Walter: 2:52

So this is also interesting, where shame comes in, right. We, thanks to social media and disconnectedness, we feel like we're the only ones struggling with this, like somehow everyone else got this secret manual to maintaining friendships in your 30s and 40s, while we're like busy meal prepping, doom scrolling and like, and we get these texts oh, what did you do at the weekend? And you want to just like go up in flames and be like sandra I did the laundry this weekend. Thank you for asking. So.

Jennifer Walter: 3:28

Brene Brown's research shows that this shame spiral, right, the shame we feel because, I don't know, we don't have any friends left. Our life's not supposed to be where. Like, our life should be different when we're like 30, 40, whatever age, like 30, 40, whatever age. Um, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a spiral, right. It makes us actually less likely to reach out when we're lonely. Like another paradox, the paradox of the paradox right at the exact time when we would need the people in our lives, we're too ashamed to reach out. So we have this nasty cycle of isolation. It's really, really tough to get out of it and it's really we're going to show, I'm going to show in this episode it's not just a you problem, it's a we problem and we have to go at it from an individual level and from a structural level, from a communal society level as well, because the research is painting a pretty stark picture. Right, you, let's, you only like.

Jennifer Walter: 4:33

For example, the american psychology association had a longitudinal study in 2023 and it kind of like um on reported loneliness among adults aged 30 to 49, and they have seen a 60% increase from the 2000s to 45% in 2023. So in 2023, 35% of all the asked adults in the study between 30 and 49 percent um said they feel lonely to uh, whatever degree. Um, and this is not to say like, oh, I, I just like. There is nothing to say against wanting your peace and quiet. I mean, I get that like I, I do like socializing, but I also need my cool off time and I need my space where I'm just like myself. Thank you very much. Just leave me the fuck alone. Um, this self-chosen quiet downtime is not what has been like conducted as loneliness, right, um. So there is this distinction I really want to make. So what is fascinating?

Jennifer Walter: 5:55

This is not just a us thing, of course. We see it in europe too. Um, we, we, I mean, funny enough, the, the uk, was it like four years ago or five years ago like appointed a minister of loneliness who really, like, was in charge to kind of like tackle all of this. And we see it not only in um across europe, but we're also seeing it in Southern European countries with traditionally stronger family ties, that they have a sharp rise in midlife loneliness Like. Think, for example, italy, who showed a massive increase of the perception of loneliness among urban professionals in their 30s and 40s, perception of loneliness among urban professionals in their 30s and 40s. So by no means it's, uh, just a us thing or us loneliness pandemic or whatever.

Jennifer Walter: 6:51

Um, funny enough, nordic countries who, despite their kind of like reputation for being more reserved and cold, um and and every kind of meaning, I suppose, have actually reported lower levels of chronic loneliness, which researchers attribute to stronger social support systems and work-life balance policies. So yeah, devil if you think, devil's advocate if you're thinking now, capitalism has anything to do with it. But hey, let's hate on socialism. It's bad, but we can at least thank socialism for their social support systems and work-life balances, can't we, anyway, that's, that's that interesting right side eye, um. Interesting also that the cdc recent report on social isolation shows that gen x and younger millennials are experiencing what they refer to as persistent loneliness, like um, at rates almost three times higher than their parents did at the same age.

Jennifer Walter: 7:59

Right, and it's not because we're suddenly like social, anti-social weirdos. In fact, the Harvard Social Connection Lab found that we're actually trying to connect more than ever. Right, we are so interconnected we're constantly connecting. There's probably not a day we're actually trying to connect more than ever. Right, we are so interconnected we're constantly connecting. There's probably not a day we're unconnected, but we're just doing it in ways that give us the same neurological benefits as face-to-face interactions. And here comes the kicker, right, we, some of us, have replaced face-to-face interaction almost exclusively with like screen, screen-to-face, screen-to-face interaction, and this is to a lot, to a big degree by design. So kind of like need we need to open the brackets for for a a second and look at a concept of third places.

Jennifer Walter: 8:58

Sociologist Ray Oldenburg coined this term back in the 80s and it was quite revolutionary on how we think about community spaces. So he says OK, there are different spots that aren't home or work. Those are like real magic community places. So think of home as your first place, work as your second place and third spaces right, the real magic community places we're talking, like he refers to as neighborhood cafes, where the barista like knows your order before you come in community centers who have loads of free activities, also local bars, to some extent like really traditional local watering holes, libraries, for example, as well local parks, and it's really giving giving kind of like that. I mean now, now I'm showing my age, kind of like that cheers theme song where everybody knows your name. That's not the melody, but I mean get the drift, otherwise just youtube it, um.

Jennifer Walter: 10:08

So it's really fascinating and kind of terrifying part to this right, these so-called first spaces are vanishing faster than I don't know my motivation to do laundry, although I'm never really motivated to do laundry, but like they're vanishing fast. And there's a research from the American Enterprise Institute that since the 1990s we've seen a closure of roughly 40% of bars and taverns afforded community centers in the US, nearly half of family-owned restaurants In some urban areas. We're talking about losing up to 70% of informal gathering space and of course the pandemic didn't help. It was kind of like this trend, but on steroids, just, I think. Theokings institute reported that between 2019 and 2022, the us lost another 25 percent of remaining tourist spaces in major metropolitan areas. So, like, yes, do some of these places deserve to go out of business? Probably, right, probably Right, like if the coffee was that bad, like sure, but right, we, we've seen it already. Right, if you walk through a high street.

Jennifer Walter: 11:23

I think this is especially prominent in the UK, but we also see it in other, in other countries. You have either empty shop fronts or you have, like big chains, starbucks, whatever, and whatnot. Um, and it's really those hurt spaces gone, uh, or it's really, or they're fighting for their like, for their absolute survival, um, so there's uh, of course, sociologists have a term for this. I always do. We call this kind of like the privatization of public life. Right, where public spaces are slowly disappearing because there's hard, it's hard to make money out of, uh, free public spaces, so we're gonna just privatize everything, right, so everything that used to be free and public is now something you have to pay for Community centers, they're probably now premium gym membership, gym member, gym place, whatever. The park where you used to play with your kids is probably an office space now and some fancy schmancy shoes bar. I mean you get the idea right.

Jennifer Walter: 12:31

And, in addition, her name was Jane Jacobs called it the death of street life. We've literally designed our cities to kill any spontaneous interaction. We've designed for cars right, wide suburban streets, no sidewalks, malls that you can only reach by car, and this is very much more so a US phenomenon, like here in Europe we still have much more of this kind of like public life and we're kind of like getting into re, re reaning cities to kind of like have more of those spontaneous interaction fields to so that those can actually form and happen. Um, but it's just a town where I live. I think just five years ago they finished a whole like construction for the city where they thought it was really smart to let the cars drive, um, drive on the ground, and for the city where they thought it was really smart to let the cars drive, drive on the ground and for the, the foot traffic and the people to go on the ground. Like what, what make it make sense, right? So, anyway, like it's really you, you are also, you're also feeling alone in a system, that kind of like designs for your loneliness, right, because when you feel lonely, what you do, you kind of like do distract yourself with other things, and one of them probably might be shopping or inflated self-care, which also requires you to shop for something. So it's a whole thing, right? Um, so we? But now, like we're not only losing those physical spaces, we're also losing the whole culture of casual community. Uh, social sociologist robert putnam call says, um, bowling alone.

Jennifer Walter: 14:27

Phenomenon like, when was the last time you just randomly ran into a neighbor, uh, while you were out doing your local, your daily shopping, and had a real conversation, not like a quick hi while you rush to the car, but like an actual chat about life, even if it's just very brief? Or like, do you know your neighbors? I don't know, right, like I, I mean, I'm guilty, I don't know most of my neighbors. So it's, I got it right. Like we're, we're in our like daily lives and it's hectic and you're like rushing from one place to the next Go pick up your kid, go there, be whatever, do something. It's hard. You're like, oh no, something it's hard. You're like, oh no, I mean I've.

Jennifer Walter: 15:18

There were moments where I can like, saw someone I knew coming down up the road and I would like duck and hide more or less, just not because I didn't necessarily want to talk to them, but I knew if I'm gonna stop now and talk to them it would mess up my day, like it would mess up my timing for the day and, yeah, surely not one of my proud moments, but it is what it is right. So, yes, we're having fewer places to hang out where we don't need to kind of like pay entry and the sense of membership or a glass of a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, or we also don't have any spaces where we can actually consume something, also like without consuming anything or without consuming alcohol, which is also very interesting. So, um, these third places what we sociologists also refer to them as they were important, as they were kind of like social equalizers. They were social mixers, right, spots that were open to everyone, like traditionally your local coffee shop or your local watering hole were spots where your job title didn't matter. People would come together, no matter what. Different generations would mix. Naturally, community, um, well, felt like community, right, not just more of the same. So what's a member of the lonely hearts club gots dude. So let's break it down into things we can actually control and um, and not just kind of like the just manifest better friends.

Jennifer Walter: 16:59

There are a few things we can actually do. One is called the micro-connection challenge. Right, we start to treat every interaction like it truly matters because it does. Right, you never know which interaction. You only know in hindsight which interaction mattered right. You never know which interaction, you only know in hindsight which interaction mattered right. So what if we treat everyone like it matters? The same goes if you have kids. Right, you don't know which conversation they will remember when they're older. So why don't we treat every conversation like it matters? Yes, of course, some days you will have more capacity to do so and on other days you will have less capacity to do so. That is okay. Like, don't stress yourself out about it, just be mindful of it. And when you're like no, you want actually, I, I feel like I, I, I have the capacity to chat to my barista today or to compliment someone's cool style or I don't know, pursue that weird hobby I always wanted to do. Go, do it. Like. Research shows that these small interactions actually really boost our mood and help us combat loneliness.

Jennifer Walter: 18:15

Another individual strategy you can do is kind of like, audit your space, look at your living situation. Are you set up for connection or isolation, right? Do you have so like? Do you have a space in your, in your home, where you can host and I don't mean like china, like your best china, and whatever whatnot, like I hosted in like old copperware once, like who cares, your people won't care, right? Um, so can you rearrange something? Um, can you? Is there maybe a community garden project? Is there something in your community that you can join to really audit it and also really be honest with yourself of how you're feeling about inviting people into your home, how, how you're feeling about inviting people into your home? I know I have friends who only feel comfortable having people over when their place is pristine, like, almost like steamed and deep cleaned, and this like creates such a also such an additional barrier of of entry and it makes it so hard for for them to kind of like escape the brené brown's shame spiral, right, because they're like oh, I would like to have people over, but for that I would need to clean my house, and in order to clean my house, I need a full day, because I haven't cleaned it in a while, yeah, see where this is going. So just be really honest with yourself, um, about that and do an audit on it.

Jennifer Walter: 19:55

Um, a third thing you could do is really scheduling connection. Um, it's what. What really helped for me and my friend is we, um, we were seeing less and less of each other and then we really started in penciling in a monthly date night for the two of us, and that's in the calendar, that's in the books. If it's not working out one month, because life, that's okay, but it's in the books and it's there, it's in the shared calendar with your, with your spouse, with your husband, your wife, whatever it's in that calendar and a family calendar is blocked, it's there. That does it really did make a difference for us anyway.

Jennifer Walter: 20:41

Um, like, set, set up these dates, whatever it could be. It could be monthly dinner clubs, like I did with my friend, weekly walk and talks or weekly uh I don't know chat when I brought the kid to school, doesn't matter, key, just go for consistency as good as possible. Um, so, individual, right, but at the beginning I said, okay, we also need to look at this from a systemic point of view. So let's talk about quickly, before we wrap up about bigger picture changes we need to push for, and I get that this is something that will require time, effort, but it's really the only thing out of this mess.

Jennifer Walter: 21:28

Um, one is this the easiest support your local fruit places, right, if you don't already put your money where communities choose your local coffee shop over starbucks. Like shop at your local bodega or your local food shop, join a community center. Like sign up to volunteer at your library or whatever kind of thing that's going on in your city, town, wherever you live? Right? Big companies don't need your money. Small businesses do so. If you're not, if, for example, starbucks is not on your boycott list anyways, it's high time. It is now, and so is amazon, just like for 2025. Let's stop supporting those two and we're already a good way. We're already making good, goodly head leeway. Um.

Jennifer Walter: 22:30

Another thing is it starts something. Um, another thing is start something. If this is, I'd say, more true for men than women, they're like oh, there's no, no club for me, or, but there's nothing for me to do. Like, change that be the one that starts the community you want. Um, I have a very good episode on the scenic route on community building with um becky Mollenkamp. I will link it in the show notes. Go listen to that if you're really into starting like an equitable community. Like start a book club, start a walking group, start whatever fucking floats your boat, right, I don't care, but someone has to start it, and if you have a bit of capacity, it might be you.

Jennifer Walter: 23:20

A third thing is community design. Sometimes cities host local planning meetings and I know that might not be super exciting, but just really try to insert yourself into policies that shape public spaces, mixed-use developments, pedestrian-friendly areas and so on, or, at the very least, vote for people who have public spaces, third spaces in mind, public spaces, third spaces in mind. Yeah, I'd say we can only do so much, but yeah, I really think we got to work on this because it's really frightening to see the perception of so many that they are feeling so lonely, and it's important for you to remember that feeling lonely doesn't mean you're doing life wrong. We're living through a massive shift in how we humans connect and it's late-stage capitalism and it's okay to struggle with that and it's important to know we're not completely powerless. Yes, the power dynamic might not be in our favor, but we persist. So, before we wrap things up, I want to leave you with this thought Loneliness isn't just about being alone, right, it's about missing meaningful connection, and meaningful connection, that's something we can create, we can nurture and we can fight for. So next time, pause, breathe and create, nurture or fight for that meaningful connection.

Jennifer Walter: 24:55

Thank you so much for being on the scenic route with me for another episode. I have more information and things listed in the show notes and, as always, if you feel like, oh, I need a bit of more insight on anything, feel free to visit my online treehouse at jenniferwalterme. Take care and just like that, we've reached the end of another journey together on the CineGroot podcast. Thank you for spending time with us, curious for more stories or in search of the resources mentioned in today's episode. Visit us at cinegrootpodcastcom for everything you need.

Jennifer Walter: 25:36

And if you're ready to embrace your scenic route, I've got something special for you. Step off the beaten path with my scenic route affirmation card deck. It's crafted for those moments when you're seeking courage, yearning to trust your inner voice and eager to carve out a path authentically, unmistakably yours. Pick your scenic route affirmation today and let it support you. Excited about where your journey might lead? I certainly am. Remember, the scenic route is not just about the destination, but the experiences, learnings and joy we discover along the way. Thank you for being here and I look forward to seeing you on the scenic route again.