Scenic Route, Social Change and Mental Health Conversations for Perfectionists
Forget the fast lane! The Scenic Route is where perfectionists slow down, get better, and create real change.
We explore:
- Mental health wisdom (minus toxic positivity)
- Social change (that starts from within)
- System critiques (with actionable solutions)
- Inner wisdom (over external validation)
- Mindfulness for minimalists (no crystals required)
Join Jennifer Walter, sociologist (MASoc UCC) and recovering perfectionist, for weekly conversations that blend critical thinking with oh-so-much compassion.
Whether you're questioning everything or trying to find peace amongst the chaos, you'll find space here for your inner voice, mindset, mental health, and collective change — you're in the right place. We make space for both personal healing and collective change — with a side of potty humour.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
The longest way round is the shortest way home – and that's exactly why we're taking the Scenic Route.
Ready to walk the scenic route?
The view here is *chef's kiss.*
Scenic Route, Social Change and Mental Health Conversations for Perfectionists
Redefining Luxury: Join the Slow Fashion Revolution with Lora Gene
Think you know quality fashion? Get ready to upgrade your shopping game. Today, we're diving deep into the world of ethical fashion with Lora Gene, who's challenging our perception of luxury and inviting us to be part of a mindful fashion revolution that values both people and the planet.
B Corp certified fashion business owner and designer Lora Gene shares her journey into ethical fashion, teaching us how to spot quality in clothing, understand fabrics, and build a wardrobe with intention.
It's a refreshing take on conscious style without the guilt trip.
In this episode, we explore:
- Why true luxury is about quality and consciousness, not just price tags
- The fascinating truth about natural fibres (especially silk!)
- Why personal style is about character, not trends
- How to develop your eye for quality without needing insider knowledge
- The most BRILLIANT tip on how to develop your personal style
- The importance of feeling good in your clothes versus just looking good
Join the Ethical Fashion Revolution and connect with Lora Gene
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
See you on the Scenic Route.
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Okay, laura, welcome to the Scenic Route podcast. I'm so thrilled to have you here.
Lora Gene:Thank you very much. I'm thrilled to be here.
Jennifer Walter:So for anyone listening in, I want to get this out of the way first. Laura is an ethical, sustainable fashion designer. Her company is certified B Corpp right, and she's also good friends, uh, with asha barber, who I had on a podcast a few episodes back. So I don't want you go now turn off this, this episode, and go listen to asha's. What I want to do if you have not yet, go do that just right after um, because I feel this is very much a continuation of the chat I had with Asha about sustainability and ethical fashion, colonialism and ultimately, we deserve better things.
Jennifer Walter:Before I questioned you, laura, about how can we actually find better things and how do we know quality if it hits us in the head better things and how do we know quality if it hits us in the head I'm really curious to hear from you how, like, fast fashion is seemingly everywhere, right, I had also friends designer friends who got ripped off and their designs stolen like it's a huge mess. So how do you personally cope with the emotional labor of creating clothing in a world that often devalues like craftsmanship and handmade work?
Lora Gene:oh, that's a very good question. Um, you know, I probably would like to start with how people can try and learn a little bit more and recognize what good quality clothing means. And I think that's a very difficult thing as well because, like you said, it's all you know, the fast fashion has taken over. 90% of what we have on the market is maybe not 90, but pretty much is fast fashion. So a lot of people, especially young people, I would say pretty much anyone Gen Z they would not even know what to look for, if that makes sense. So I feel like one of the things that we should say here, before dwelling first in the subject, is probably try and learn a little bit more about quality, what a quality garment looks like and that can happen in many ways is there, but a lot of smaller ethical brands and a lot of creators in that space are doing quite a lot of content around this, showing stitches or, you know, fits or finishings, variety of things which can help you assess or at least see some signs of what a good quality garment means.
Lora Gene:I believe there is this. You know, the conversation is getting bigger and bigger and bigger and people are more interested, people from all sorts of life and you know ages and demographics, and I really want to say here as well just go and learn a little bit more, because this is where we fail. As a first step, we as a society, we as um, as everyone you can think of that buys clothes, which is basically everyone, because we need clothes, right, and um, I mean, it's just big companies, larger corporations, they kind of count on this. That you don't know, you can't really make the difference, so it doesn't really matter.
Lora Gene:I was walking by the other day through central London and I passed by a fast fashion store, large fast fashion store, and even on the window there was a couple of you know sty and even on the window there was a couple of you know styled um sets on the window and you can tell that it's such a bad quality. You can see some of it already sort of like falling and dripping here and there, and it's just. You know, obviously I'm not the person who, um, you know, obviously I'm in this. I have been making clothes for 15 years, so it's very difficult for me to, you know, to not sound condescending or somehow, you know, just like, give it as a simple answer, because when you're too much into this, too professional, it becomes a reflex, right? You just see something, oh.
Jennifer Walter:God, I'm a condescending bitch whenever, like I'm a trained graphic designer, back in the days like 20 odd years ago. So whenever I see like a magazine or a newspaper or like a bad, like typo lettering, I'm like, oh no, exactly, it's okay, we can be condescending bitches, it's fine.
Lora Gene:This is a little bit there, but I just feel like there is ways that people can learn how to recognize good quality clothing. It's there. Yes, it does need a little bit of digging, it does need a bit of time, but it's there like we have it. There is a plenty of people doing that, so I think that's probably the first one I really want to say just go learn a little bit more because it will save you money, it will save you time, it will save you frustration.
Lora Gene:You know, and I know like not the major thing of everyone's life, but at the same time you know it's like anything else. It's like the better food that you put in your body, better clothing, that that you put on your body is the closest things to us at all times, right yeah so, um, going back to your question, how do I cope with that? Um, you know what, like everything else, there are days and days.
Lora Gene:There are some days where you know a customer would get back and say something really nice, or you know you have a PR win out of nowhere and you just feel like there is a point. You know I mean I'm doing the right thing, you're getting a breadcrumb after breadcrumb Exactly.
Lora Gene:And there are days, of course, where you, you know, sometimes I look at the statistics and you see, you know all these fast fashion companies growing crazy and then you see on the other side so many smaller ethical businesses, local businesses, failing simply because you know they can't really make a sustainable business or sustainable living out of it and you're just really struggling mentally to find you know the purpose of all of this. But I tend to, you know, I tend to try and stay in my own lane, mentally, business-wise, physically, I really try to limit the noise that I see all the time, because if you start, you know, I saw, even yesterday, I saw a post and it was like, oh, you want to start a fashion brand. Probably it's not the best time because of xyz, and I actually find those posts extremely unhelpful because, um, there is never a right time or a wrong time. If you look at it from, you know, a zoomed out perspective, there is always something happening in the world and, yes, you know what I mean. And then the other day I was talking to a friend and he told me something really beautiful that really fits my way of looking at things and it was something around the lines of it's all going at the same time, from the most beautiful to the absolute worst, and where you choose to put your focus is your life and your work.
Lora Gene:And obviously there are people who are more suited to show you the worst of us, the worst of the world and society and everything, and there is people who are more suited to show you the beauty. I've always done aesthetics and I've always struggled because obviously you know you are a person, you see the news, you see what's happening in the world, so you're not, you know, isolated from all of it. But I've always done this and I've always wanted to bring more beauty to the world. So I kind of try and always go back to that. What is my you?
Lora Gene:know of this, you know what I mean like what's my tread? What's where is my tread from the whole cloth? Where is my um? The one thing that I can do. Because, you know, when you're like 15, 20, I guess, you have this very romantic perspective about the world and you're like, oh, I'm gonna fix things, and and then you grow up and you realize that you can fix a small corner of it.
Lora Gene:Yeah, you're fixing this dumpster fire while this one is burning even brighter exactly, but that doesn't mean you're not part of the whole picture.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, and it does not like diminish the quality, like the work you did. You like you put out a dumpster fire like good for you.
Lora Gene:Exactly, and this is where I also feel a lot of people fail going back to. You know, if you choose a good quality, because a lot of people, regardless who they are, would be like it's just one small thing, people, regardless who they are, would be like, yeah, but it's just one small thing. And then, if you again zoom out and look at this at the whole perspective of how the world function, everything matters at all times, you know. So, if you choose this one thing to do this one small thing right, whatever it could be buying a better garment from a business from a better business, uh, buying better food for yourself, exercising, you know, spending five minutes with yourself to channel your personal, you know, inner energy, all of that matters all the time and I just feel like it's. It's a really important perspective that we have to go back to yes, 100.
Jennifer Walter:I feel we get, and we potentially we also, we get tricked into believing our actions, our individual actions don't matter, don't? Matter yeah and which is so not true. Right like we know, boycotting works um, like, I mean, just starbucks is coming to mind. Right, like a lot of people saying nah, you know what your coffee is? Shit like you're not supporting your actions um against gaza, like whatever, like no, and it's working right. They're down, like their stock is down and whatever.
Lora Gene:But because you know where you put your money is where you put your power. You as an individual. You kind of have that in a capitalistic society, I guess, but still we are in that system I mean that system exactly we need to like we we can talk about dismantling it.
Jennifer Walter:I'm always there for that. I feel this needs like to have at least the chin and tonic with it. Um, but it's so true, right, like, like. I remember when I started really looking at what I was wearing a couple of years ago. Then I remember I got a really nice piece. I think one of the first ones was from Elizabeth Suzanne actually.
Jennifer Walter:Okay, elizabeth suzanne actually okay, um, and I got so many compliments for it, right, and I would always say, oh, you know, this is this like independent maker in the states who like blah, blah, blah and would like go on on a little like, uh, ted talk, um, and that was me influencing people, right, like there were people who've never heard of this person before, right, and it's small scale and all, but it goes on and on. And don't let anyone ever tell you individual actions don't matter, like this is just the biggest lie.
Lora Gene:They want you yes, yeah, absolutely, and it's. It's so easy to manipulate into people's heads. You know it's so easy, sure? I mean, obviously, it's just this one thing and it doesn't matter. And then you multiply it in your head by three billion and it actually matters quite a bit.
Jennifer Walter:So yeah, it's yeah, and it's also like it's so frustrating. I'm a sociologist and it's so frustrating. Like I know, I believe very much in systems define how our actions look like, how we can do things, we follow certain systems right, and then you're like, yeah, this is the easy way and we can also decide. We hold agency, we can also decide to do things differently, and I love that you said at the beginning it has a lot to do with raising, with educating ourselves, with raising our awareness for certain things, and just that made me thinking of when I was a little girl. In school we had, like textile work as like in school it was I don't know a couple of hours a week where we had to saw, we had to knit, we did all these things, and they still have that in school, but I don't, I'm pretty sure it's not as many hours anymore, right, and all these things like it starts very early on, that you can also like teach your kids that you mend clothes.
Jennifer Walter:Right, like we make it a thing for our son that like he sees us mending his clothes yeah, right, because things like shit all the time that's the very basics of it.
Lora Gene:You know, I did have that in in my school as well. I think they have it, but it's very minimized. Now, um, and you know, it's like I feel like also, um, next to this, the conversation about it in schools is completely it doesn't exist, right? I had someone um contacted me a couple months ago I suppose, and it was basically parents, like organization of parents, trying to put more awareness into that conversation. So they were essentially asking experts and, you know, people from industry to go and talk to students from secondary schools. So I thought that it's a really good idea.
Lora Gene:The problem with this is that, um, you know, it's all on volunteers basis and people which know what they're talking about, they're usually quite busy. So I would like to see it further developed by potentially, you know, some sort of like a program that governments can adopt and put into schools, not just for clothes, but you know, just like the whole conversation about, because in my, in my cat school, there is a big conversation about sustainability, and you know how to. When I say sustainability, I mean anything, think about anything. Um, you know preserving nature and stuff, but somehow rarely clothes are part of this yes, so in our school yeah, we talk about food and everything but not.
Jennifer Walter:But at the same time you're like well, but can we also talk about like oh, it's, it's very?
Lora Gene:exactly, exactly. I had to put quite a bit of effort and, mind you, I'm in this business and my kid is, you know, she's eight years old now but she's minus five, so but you know they understand and you know she one day and she was like, can I have that thing from Shein? And I was like, no, you can't. So we had that conversation and what actually made her reconsider and you know, not go into a tantrum as an eight-year-old would most of the time what? The fact that they have stole from us a design and I showed her and she was really pissed you know, she was like oh, that's not a good thing to do.
Lora Gene:So you know, I mean, but most parents don't have that tool in their head. So, you know, and most parents actually today don't have the agency that schools have. Uh, in my view, you know, I mean, kids are more um, I guess they have a little bit more respect to their teachers rather than their parents, because we work more, you know, this is yeah, maybe I don't know, I don't remember.
Jennifer Walter:Back when I was a kid, my, my dad could tell me something. I would be like, oh, dad and I'm like this handsome like subsidiary teacher will tell me something.
Lora Gene:I'll be like, sure I'm listening, right like it's you know what I mean exactly, so I might be wrong.
Jennifer Walter:Maybe whoever gets the message through to my kid like I don't care yeah, that's exactly my point, whoever gets the message out there.
Lora Gene:So I just feel like it could be a really good thing if governments can push something in that direction. Maybe, like you know, like this mentorship programs that we have here in london. In the uk general with the no, I think it's in london only the mayor started some mentorship for young people. I think these are really important things, you know, on scale, oh yeah, oh, yes, yes.
Jennifer Walter:And just remember, I had I was shopping with my niece for her birthday the other day, just last week, and then we were, we were actually. She was like she saw one of these like very pretty dresses and I was looking I always look at clothing tax because I don't buy polyester, end of story, right and then, of course, this dress was like 85 polyester and I'm like, look, I'm sorry we're not buying this, right and she was like I really want that.
Jennifer Walter:And we started a full-on conversation, um, and it was really, and it made me think like, oh, like I've never came across good resources that explain the whole sustainable fashion and or like not sustainable fashion dilemma on a simple level right yeah, yeah, because I know we have books at home who explained like how, like how your sausage is being made and all these things right, but I have never come across maybe I don't know if someone listening who knows the perfect kids book for this like, please, like, send it to me, like I'm like is, is there one, can someone make one, please? Like, who explains it for kids age five to 10 or something. But that's one thing, yeah.
Lora Gene:I want to add something to this. I think actually a lot of and, please, you know, to anyone who is listening, maybe forgive me for saying that, because I know that everyone in this space talking about things and being really passionate about it has good intentions, but, at the same time, I'm one of those people in this space again and I have been really struggling with all the messaging from sustainable advocates and sustainability, especially in fashion. Because, you see, my first education is advertising and marketing and my second education is business. And you know Ogilvy, in the 60s or in the 70s, he said something which it's like a rule. You know, it's how humans perceive information and basically it's a quote from him saying you can't bore your customers into buying your product. You have to excite them, you have to inspire them. Whatever the emotion is, it has to be something which is positive, because this is how we function on a, on a. You know, advertising, basically psychology and something minor.
Lora Gene:It is, it is, it is psychology we need to generate trust exactly entirely so I was, I worked in branding for 20 years, so I, yes, I support this message there, you go and I feel like a lot of the messaging that we have adopted, in the sustainable fashion space especially, is very much loaded language, negative messaging guilt such a good point.
Lora Gene:Yes, the shaming is going really rampant well, very, very negative and it's always, like you know, getting people to feel guilty, that they are not doing good enough. And it always comes from and when I say it always, I mean you know masse, I don't mean always like as a. Probably there are some people out there who are not doing it, but the majority of what you get across as a message is basically this you know bunch of people sitting on this high pedestal being like very righteous and knowledgeable, and you know, very often the conversation is loaded with certifications and admissions and this and that and whatever, and I feel like a lot of people listening to those things are just basically like what are you guys talking about, you know? So I do feel like this is very much. What you just said is very much relevant to the whole conversation, regardless if it's kids or adults, is very much relevant to the whole conversation, regardless if it's kids or adults. I very much try to stay away from it as much as possible and never really take it as a first step, because sustainability became this buzzword where no one really knows what it means anymore, and it's like oh, sustainable fashion, sustainable clothing, is it really sustainable, is it? And you're like, oh, my dear god.
Lora Gene:I grew up in a country which is, you know, basically one of the biggest hubs for making garments and it's just um, if you, if you go and have this conversation with one of the factories that we work with and I actually give her as an example, very often it's a it's a factory that's based in um, uh, high, like high at the mountains, it's like this high mountain area, basically very clean, very, you know, it's a big factory, 450 people, and I've been, uh, witnessing few conversations where, you know people will ask her what about sustainability? And they have all the certificates that they need to have, and like it's very transparent and stuff, and she's she's usually responding something like what do you mean sustainability? We live here. You know, 99.99% of the people in this building live here. They grow up here, their kids are growing here.
Lora Gene:What do you mean sustainability? Of course we care about everything. This is where we live. So I feel like it's it's it's becoming this again like you know, marketing perspective of things rather than looking at the very human side of it. And why do we need to talk about this and why do we need to do those things and why is it important that we sustain ourselves making garments, making food, making energy, making anything, because it's the the exact same conversation and logic behind it.
Jennifer Walter:I, I'm glad you bring this up because this will also probably get me some heat. But like, listen, this is something I have also I feel is kind of like in the lane also of self-care, the whole self-care, and like the perversion of it. Right, nothing against true self-care, but the in the audrey lord kind of way. But anyway, right, like, has sustainability become some sort of like cultural capital, like that? It's kind of like a marker of class distinction as well. And you then have these like oh, you know, I'm able to engage in sustainability, and so I'm like so good. And you're like is that the point?
Lora Gene:I don't know, but I honestly do feel, I do feel you have something going on there.
Jennifer Walter:And.
Lora Gene:I'm happy for us to take the heat because I think it's an important conversation. I see more and more people, and I don't mean anyone in particular, but it's part of that conversation. I don't even if you ask me who I just, it's just a narrative, it's just a narrative.
Lora Gene:But you know, even look at it now, like pretty much everyone that talks about sustainability has become like this you know, a platform with self-serving people.
Lora Gene:You know I sell this or I subscribe to this or, and don't get me wrong, I think it's all good, it's all like if you are providing some sort of information, whether it's through a podcast, um, a mailing list, a product, it doesn't matter.
Lora Gene:But I feel like a lot of people in this space have completely forgotten and this is where my frustration, my personal frustration with the no buy and secondhand September and all sorts of you know, weird events going on, that kind of like pick up people's brains and there is no critical thought applied to it whatsoever. It really frustrates me because, you know, instead of a lot of people that are supposedly advocates for sustainable fashion, really push, you know, for sustainable fashion, really push, um, you know, better businesses and and some somehow try to give people an actual solution. They sort of like push their own agenda before everything else. So it makes me very often wonder, you know, but wait, is that, is it about the message or it's about you in relation to the message? Because it very much feels like it. You know, now, at this point oh yes, it really does.
Lora Gene:Yes, I think you have a point. I think you do have a point, and it's not just. It's not just like a social capital, it's more like you. You know another platform where people can bank on something which, again, as much as I understand, we live in a capitalistic society and all but it. It doesn't, it doesn't really serve anyone but them.
Jennifer Walter:This is where I have a problem with it, you know oh god, yes, if it's just another symptom of like me, me, me neoliberalism, I'm like, oh no, I'm not, I'm sorry, like you cannot solve anything by bypassing social awareness.
Jennifer Walter:And like no exactly exactly this is yeah, this is what I'm currently like on self-care and like the whole, like bypassing of social awareness. That also goes into a lot of the coaching and therapy spaces. Right, like you cannot, it's not possible, and I will include sustainability in that thought. Like I have nothing smart to say as of now, but this has to really like.
Lora Gene:It feels threatening and aggressive and arrogant and I just maybe it's me, Maybe I'm always happy to be proven wrong, but I just don't feel people en masse will subscribe to it. They want, you know, because this is again human psychology we want to be inspired, we want to be aspired to do something, not to be constantly told how bad we're doing on any sort of Most of us know.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, but I feel this, this, this is shifting, or I really want to I feel, is this I agree, I mean the past couple of years we have seen this bro marketing, scarcity tactic, funnel marketing or mass, and I I truly want to believe it's shifting and I sometimes see little glimmers where I'm like it's, it's starting, it's turning, so it's too early to tell.
Lora Gene:No, I 100% agree with you. I think there is a massive shift, which, though now looks tiny, you know, like everything, everything has a bell curve. At the end of the day, everything has a bell curve. We have to, you know, climb the mountain, go on top and then, like plateau, uh, but, and and we are on the way and nothing in the world. The world is too big and too complex, and there is many things happening again at the same time, so nothing is quick. But at this time, you know, I I kind of in all conversations about sustainability, when people start losing hope, I kind of want to remind them about the berlin wall, which fell for just a few days. It was there that's a long time and then it fell for a few days.
Jennifer Walter:You know, so change can happen pretty quickly change can happen pretty quickly.
Lora Gene:It takes time to build that up in those minds, but then you know, boom, and next day we wake up in a different world.
Jennifer Walter:I I'd like to believe that and keep it in my um yeah, me too weren't always the glasses or half full people always yeah yeah, and it's always interesting that disney always gives me like the boomer side eye when I'm like I'm it's okay, like I'll be your eternal snowflake, like I can live with that yeah, um but I want to circle back to um, what I said.
Jennifer Walter:Um, it goes back to the quality and how you can spot it. Maybe, like I said when I shared like with my niece, um, and the polyester dress, I always check, tack like the clothing tax on like, what's what's in it? Um, it's polyester. I'm like nope, not for me, because I just don't like. I just prefer natural fibers on my skin. Um, what is your like? What are your most reliable indicators of garment quality? All right, that anyone buying anything should be should look for like beyond brand names. Yeah, can you share a few with us?
Lora Gene:oh yeah, of course, I usually try to kind of like give very simple answers to this. Because of everything we just said now, I think people get really confused. So one of the things the first thing I would probably say is try, and you know, avoid fast fashion at all times, obviously, because the the whole motto is built on, you know, cutting corners, using the cheapest possible fabrics and having like.
Jennifer Walter:Someone is paying the price always.
Lora Gene:Someone is always paying the price of course, but also that includes using very cheap fabrics, you know, because you can't, essentially somehow you have to achieve this really low price point that people think it's even if you pay people like shit, you still have to pay them. Yeah, exactly yeah, wow, so you cut other corners yes, so I would say, obviously, the first one is to to avoid.
Lora Gene:But even like, let's say you can't and there are people who genuinely need to buy something from them. I just try and go for natural fibers, really try and avoid the plastics, because, you know, I'm not one of those people who will say eliminate polyester for good and once and for all simply because it's there. We have invented it and there is actually some good sides of it. If you look at it from a professional perspective, there are some good sides of it and, yes, they are mainly connected to a price point. But again, this is the reality we live in.
Lora Gene:So the issue with polyester is the quantity, it's not the fact that it's there. Because, you see, polyester before polyester was invented, just for the sake of example and fact checking with people's heads. Um, polyester was invented to you know, to bond fabrics, to have a a better longevity and durability, and you know it was a fiber, man-made fiber, which was done for that. But if you go a step back, you will see that what was used before polyester is silk, because silk is the strongest fiber known to humans and it's the only one from all that we use which is a long. It's called the filament, so it's a long fiber, it's actually a continuous fiber, something that doesn't really easily break. So let's say, on the other side you will have, let's say, cotton, which is a short fiber and it's easily breakable.
Jennifer Walter:Yeah, a lot of points where you can like exactly it can.
Lora Gene:It can break. It's called the staple fiber and it's it's shorter so it can break more easily. So essentially, back in the day, people have used have been using silk to bond fibers, but silk is quite pricey and it's very difficult and labor intensive to make. So when we came up with polyester, this was the solution to have a long, staple sorry, long film, a long film which can bond fibers. So very often man-made fibers like polyester, polyamides and nylons. They're used to bond fibers to make them more durable, especially like more fragile fiber like cotton, like linens, like you know, even wool, same short fiber. So, generally speaking, there is no harm in having some polyester. The problem is we have now 80 of our garments are made entirely from polyester, which is completely bonkers.
Jennifer Walter:It does not yeah, if you look at why, the origin on why it's yeah exactly.
Lora Gene:It's completely weird. You know it shouldn't be that way because, again, clothing, any garment, is the closest thing to your body at all times yeah, your skin is biggest organ, like it's.
Jennifer Walter:You don't?
Lora Gene:want to be wrapped in plastic.
Jennifer Walter:You know you want to have something readable, exactly.
Lora Gene:So it's really about the quantities at this point. So room one I would say is go for natural fibers. Obviously this will be slightly pricier, but still it's much more. You know, um rule number one. Rule number two, I would probably say um, have a look at the stitches. So I usually tell people, you know, if you just kind of pull a stitch a little bit and you see it easily, you know, giving room in between the threads, obviously this garment will be. It won't be that durable.
Lora Gene:Yeah a couple of washes and it's full and that's very easy to see, right, that's very easy to see. You just pull the stitches a little bit and maybe what I would say is, like, just look at the whole build of a garment, you know, like if something really feels like it's a good, it's well made and kind of like finished nicely, even if it's a high street brand, I think you have a much better chance to have it for longer, rather than something like I said, I saw the other day on a fast fashion retailer's window. You know just, it looks like it's going to fall off any second, disintegrate on the body. So I just honestly, my biggest advice is use, don't use that much knowledge, because most people don't have that knowledge now and it's really uh weird to, you know, critique them that they don't know. I mean, I would probably say just use your common sense like any other product.
Jennifer Walter:Use your, yeah but that's also like everyone who knows me is now. Oh, now she's gonna tell that story again. I had a professor at uni at uni and he had two sayings and I quote both on a daily basis, and one is common sense is not so common, it's true. True, our work has never been spoken like he. He had some very weird out there thoughts, but this one was spot on. I'm like, yeah, common sense is not so common, sadly.
Lora Gene:So this is true but yeah, maybe, maybe this will help people. Just look at at the stitches, try for natural fibers and just look at the overall build of it. Try it on, move in it. If you start from the perspective of this is something that's closest to me at all times. It's on my body. I want to feel in a certain way and this is what I feel.
Lora Gene:A lot of people and I'm convinced now that a lot of people, have been entirely brainwashed, because very few clothing companies talk about the feel of a garment. It's always about the looks. It's always about how it looks. This is like the prevalent right. It's such a prevalent thing and yes, I mean listen, I'm someone that sells aesthetics since I was 15, right, so I definitely don't. I don't want to diminish that part of it because it's really important. But unless you feel good in something, regardless of how amazing it is, the best you can spend in that garment will be a couple of hours. And that's why you know, like ball gowns and stuff like that, they're not made to be comfortable, necessarily, they're made to be beautiful. But this cannot be applied to your everyday wear, to what you wear in your daily life.
Jennifer Walter:You can suck it in for an evening, but even purely biologically, if you look at it.
Lora Gene:That's why I keep on saying it's the closest thing, because our biggest organ is our skin right and it's the first indicator if something is wrong with us, whatever you know. You're ill and you become yellowish or ashy, you have a rash and all those things. And the fact that you prefer wrapping our, your biggest organ, into plastic is is is completely against our natural state of being.
Lora Gene:It's that simple you know, yeah, everything is so powerful and it's so easy to at this point, it's so easy to manipulate people and, you know, put them into oh, looks, looks, looks. This is what's important. I mean, just see two people one that feels really good in their clothes and another one that looks amazing and super fashionable. I promise you, the one that feels really good is going to be the one you're drawn to, because this is how humans.
Jennifer Walter:There's just something else about yeah, yeah, looks, look versus feel. This is I mean yeah, and I think it goes even one step further. So I'd say, like weekly challenge, if you have anything in your closet that no longer fits you because it might has been too tight now and your body has grown for whatever reason, this is fine yeah pass it on to someone else who will love it and wear it right like and I mean, I've been guilty of this too, like I've done this in the past.
Jennifer Walter:We're like I just could suck it in and I'm like, why, why would I bother? Maybe it's me turning 40 but I'm like I don't really fucking want to.
Lora Gene:I don't care yeah, but you know what? It's not even versus, it's more like before. So the you know feel is before the looks and you know, somehow they work together in a in a perfect harmony. You know, for me this is always the number one thing and that's why I choose to work with. You know, as a primary fabric I choose to work with silk, because there is nothing that feels like silk I mean, let's be honest, there is nothing you know, even cashmere doesn't feel the same way, so you know if you have, and that's that's actually.
Lora Gene:This is where I find something really sad that a lot of people don't even know how that feels. A lot of young people have no idea how safe it feels and that's just sad, you know, because it's becoming such a scarce material most of the natural fibers, to be honest with you, and I just feel like like sometimes, especially on social media, tiktok, where more young, like younger people are, you feel like you just want to have like a swatch book and send it to them so they can feel it because, yeah, you know, like those baby blokes, exactly yeah it's just you're something there yeah, we lost so much of this connection and part of ourselves, which is our natural relationship with the environment.
Lora Gene:This is my other biggest, I would say probably pet beef where, you know, somehow we always when, when we talk about sustainability, it's always like nature is somehow separated from humans or the other way around. Somehow we are this like you know, weird creature that is in like a weird bubble somewhere and it's not part of nature. And and I find this such a weird narrative because, you know, when people talk about killing mother earth, no, we are killing ourselves, because the planet is here and has been here for a very long time before us.
Jennifer Walter:It will be here after us, so we need, it will be able to regenerate itself. Probably I'll be able to regenerate once we're gone.
Lora Gene:We have to sustain ourselves in that environment. Environment we are part of it, just like any others, you know.
Jennifer Walter:So I just um yeah but again, right, if we have like neoliberalism of me, me, me, don't, we have a hard time fattening that we are part of a society, let alone like an ecosystem.
Lora Gene:Yeah, yeah exactly individualism, as a friend of mine is gonna say now, individualism is gonna kill us all you know amen to that like yeah, I mean it's.
Jennifer Walter:It's like and sometimes this is where I get like like a sour, moldy old bitch, where I'm like you know, sociologists have been telling you this for years, but you ain't listening but that there will be a conversation for another time yeah, true, true but I really like this, the the fabric swatch book idea because this is so true, right like silk is so lovely on my skin, the only thing I I'm really having a hard time with.
Jennifer Walter:if there's something I can spill, I will spill it, and if you spill anything on silk, it's a nightmare.
Lora Gene:It depends though it really depends. It depends on listen. I mean there is a good side of it and there is a bad side of it. So what I mean is like is a good side of it and there is a bad side of it. So what I mean is, like the really good side of this is that wearing such a beautiful and pricey fabrics is it makes you more aware, so it makes you way more careful into how you treat them not just the spill, but like you know how you're washing washing machine, how you would take care of them.
Lora Gene:And I promise you I see this with customers of ours which are already so well acknowledged to all of those things. They are very you know they would message and say how do I, what do I do? I spilled coffee, what do I do? And actually you know a lot of the things around Silk. A lot of the narrative around silk is completely invented and um false in respect of selling more plastics, because what I just told you earlier on, polyester was invented to substitute silk because of the labor intensive process and the price and all of that stuff. It wasn't and obviously you know polyester makers make a lot of money. It's a petroleum-based fiber, so it's all very much invented in favor of plastics, which is to say that silk is actually not such a fancy material to take care of. You have to know very basic things. We are just about to launch Sorry, I don't want this to sound like an advertising, but you're okay, that's okay it's no, because it's such a mind-blowing thing to me.
Lora Gene:We are the only company that makes a hundred silk knitted t-shirt. Do you sound that you make them 10 years ago, from what people tell me, and I keep on trying to find someone who makes them outside of us and no one does. No one does, I don't know what. There's a price, whether and it kind of. You know people really really like it, but you can wash it in the washing machine on 30 degrees. It's a very unpretentious garment, you know you don't have to like I mean, obviously I'm not telling you put a ketchup on it, but you know what I mean like it's a. It's the strongest fiber that humans know. So the the idea that it's a very, very tricky fiber to take care of is not coming from the fact or the features of the fabric itself. It's coming from the same narrative which is going to tell you it's all it's, you know killing animals and this, and that, as if 80 polyester production doesn't kill animals fall out yeah, that's another.
Jennifer Walter:Like I think that's another discussion for a whole, nother time like the whole vegan aspect of things right, like don't get me started on it yeah, I'm, I'm like, as part of me, really wants to like, uh, uh like. Bring this on um like vegan, vegan leather. It's just it's a thank you very much. Unless you do something like the pineapple, pineapple things or something, I don't know, but yeah we're like, okay, we'll have to, we'll have you come back for for because I feel there's a lot to say about this listen, I I kind of um, we covered a lot of ground and I think it's without giving like anyone, uh, like a detailed manual of like, do this, do that and don't do that, right.
Jennifer Walter:I think it's really lovely that you, without giving anyone Like a detailed manual Of like, do this, do that and don't do that, right? I think it's really lovely that you highlighted the no shame approach.
Jennifer Walter:Because, shaming is not really Igniting social change ever, or personal change and then social change. But it's really, yeah, be curious. And again, that was also very interesting for me about the long fibers with silk and the short with cotton, like it totally makes sense from if you look at it from a physics point of view. But I've never really I don't know thought about it like that, because I'm not an average person.
Lora Gene:Why would you, in the same context, why would you? You know, I feel like people in this space have completely lost touch with reality. If you're a lawyer, intellectual property lawyer, why would you have your time spent, unless it's a topic or something that you're passionate about, like a hobby or or just like interest of yours? Why would you spend time reading about long and short fibers and you?
Jennifer Walter:know I, I work, I do read a lot of weird books that are non-fiction, but true, but you know what I mean.
Lora Gene:Like yeah, no, I really hate how the approach is. You should know this. No, you shouldn't. Just like you should know about intellectual property rights. No one's supposed to know that much about anything diving deep. Obviously we are talking about you know common things and something. But this is where I feel like the approach always should be polite and somehow kind, and I mean I don't know. I think sometimes I also want to scream at people and just be like come on, how you not see it, obviously. But I don't think anyone is going to buy into this unless we give them something inspirational, something you know. It's one thing to tell you, listen, you will feel amazing, I promise you just give it a try. And it's another thing to tell you come on, are you dumb? You don't know silk, what do you mean? Like it's very an approach you know. So I and I just can't get myself to ever shame people or be aggressive to anything.
Jennifer Walter:I don't think it's the right way oh, 100, and I think this is a very lovely notion to end our conversation.
Jennifer Walter:But I have one last question, because I have you on and we had not have yet promised a second, second conversation. I I feel like, um, I once had a fashion maker on before and I asked her too. And I'm also asked, asha, and I'm also curious about you, because all you fashion stylish people what to you, is the difference between style and fashionable, like someone being stylish and someone being fashionable? What does true style mean to you?
Lora Gene:um, I would probably say that true style is basically your character visualized let's put it that way your character visualized, because you see, I'm a strong believer in you.
Lora Gene:Know, people constantly talk, especially in this industry or any creative industry, and as you are a graphic designer, you would agree with me we always talk about talent and how talent is important and this and that and it's. It is important. But you know, if you actually look into it uh and when I say look into it, I think about it and ponder a little bit Talent doesn't mean much, it's a small percentage, it's a very small percentage, it's very random. Also, unless you have character which can be observed and nurtured, then you know you don't really have anything, because talent without the work, without the effort, the development, means nothing talent will not get you learning a trade exactly and it's random.
Lora Gene:You know you might have it, you might not have, and there are many people who are, you know, considered not so talented and have done amazing things which benefited a lot of people. Many examples even in the music industry, you know, people have been saying madonna is talentless, yet she is the biggest pop icon oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean you know there are a lot of people.
Lora Gene:I think taylor swift is another example like are there better vocalists sure, but you cannot deny what she's doing right now. It's massive exactly so I feel like it's the same for style. You know it's your character and everything about you, but in in the visuals.
Lora Gene:So I like this fashionable is about. You know what's going on at the moment. It's like this you know trend and this kind of at the moment thing that's happening and there's nothing wrong with it. You know, I think it's part of the industry, it will always be part of the industry. It will always matter to a certain extent. Listen, we don't really do trends in in, but we I would lie to you if I say I don um do the trendy colors, I don't do the trendy shapes. You know, obviously it's a timeless approach to it because it's again how you read the trends, it's not how you yeah, I mean you can feel inspired by I don't know, the pantone color of the year or something also it's how it works.
Lora Gene:you know, people want to feel with the time. So I don't think it. I'm not one of those people who's going to say ditch the trends entirely because it's not going to happen. It's how it functions. It's how our world functions, and it's not only in fashion. You know, we have trends in food, we have trends in psychology, we have trends in architecture.
Jennifer Walter:We have lots and lots of trends. Oh, absolutely.
Lora Gene:And most of the time, to be honest, I think half of them make sense. So, you know, if it's trendier to have eco-conscious housing, there is nothing wrong with that, because we need that. If it's trendy to talk about sustainable fashion, there is nothing wrong with that, because it is really important is to develop your own style, again based on your character, because it's what makes you you. You know, this is one of those messages that we are really trying to come across Sorry to get across to everyone. That's like you know, we can reach the eyes off. Um is basically, you know, the main thing in the fashion industry is that, um, someone is trying to sell you a new you that is going to, you know, tick some box. You know, if I buy this dress, I'm gonna oh god, we all had that one, that one piece of our wardrobe.
Lora Gene:I'm like I'm gonna wear this when or like yeah if I'm wearing these hand, this handbag, like I am this kind of person but that's the whole idea to sell something which that gives you an additional layer of some something that might not necessarily be you. It's about the society and how you're perceiving it. Yeah, what I'm really trying to get across is that I kind of try and nudge women to remember that this is all invented and they are amazing as they are. Clothes need to highlight this, you know, to kind of make this even more visible and make them feel better with themselves rather than with some new, invented, new you or anything like that. I'm not saying which is better or worse, but I feel, at 21st century, where we are dealing with all of this, you know, climate change and all these challenges in our world I feel it's really important that we start recognizing how we feel about ourselves before how we feel outside in the world.
Jennifer Walter:Before we worry about how we look. So we're back to look. Feel versus look.
Lora Gene:Yeah, so I feel like style for me has always been your character in visual who you are visualized.
Jennifer Walter:I love this. Okay. I'm going to go through my wardrobe and like, see, like, okay, yes, yes, I love this. Okay, and I'm gonna go through my wardrobe and like, see, like okay, yes, yes, I love this very much. This is a very good description it's your expression.
Lora Gene:Yes, yes, and it's.
Jennifer Walter:And I mean you. You can say what you want, right it's. You can say it's superficial and whatnot, but we all judge a book by its covers, of course. I mean, we're all human, we all do it it's reduces the complexity of our like every day, like we do it. Where we can try to um go against our biases, we should, but we all like judge the book by its covers.
Lora Gene:So we do and it's important and I feel it's. You know you can't. Just a lot of people are like, oh, the fashion is bullshit. It's not. It's a huge industry, right, like it's one of the biggest industries in the world. It matters a lot to many people and, yes, a lot of.
Lora Gene:It might sound like you know, we are like this snowflakes, which are just talking about colors and stuff, but the truth is, outside of this very tiny fashion conversation, which is about fashion shows and trends and stuff, there is so much to clothing. It's such a human thing and that's why I always try to put it in the context of humans. Your character visualized how you feel, because it's about humans. You know, clothing is about humans. Even luxury is about humans. Everything is about human luxury as a segment, as a part of the industry.
Lora Gene:So I just feel like one of the major things and I would probably like to leave you with that is to ask everyone who's going to listen to this or, you know, somehow, whoever we are able to reach me and you with this conversation to try and bring back their idea of clothing and fashion and everything that is connected to garments to a more human level and connect to that the moment you do that, everything becomes so simple.
Lora Gene:You know, you go and buy a garment and you think, oh, but wait a second, this is made from a human, which I might not see, but it's made from a human, and that human pretty much wants the same thing as me. Because, you know, we all want some security, we all want some sort of basic, basic needs. And and then the moment you are like, is this person you know abused, making this? Let me check, let me see the moment you make that human connection, everything becomes so simple and you can, um, you know, inspire yourself to be more careful how you buy for yourself and how that affects others I could not have said it better I tried my best, oh, sometimes it comes.
Jennifer Walter:Well done, okay. So, laura, if anyone is inspired now to have a look at what you're doing, where can people find you?
Lora Gene:tell us we are pretty much on all social media, whether we like it or not. We have a website. We are very hardly working to hopefully open our first store this year.
Lora Gene:We'll see like in mortar hopefully London, I suppose to mortar yeah, hopefully we have that, I suppose yes yeah, just to start with, hopefully we have some stores. We actually have a couple of locations, but just you can go on the website lauragenecom very easy and just look. We have all the information is there and we are very conversational brand, so if you have any questions, just feel free to message email. That's like our best um, I would say, my biggest. The one thing I'm very proud of is that we have such an open and friendly conversation with our audience and customers. I I really think that brands should become more human in all sorts of ways.
Jennifer Walter:Generally good branding advice to leave. Laura, thank you so much for being on a scenic route with me.
Lora Gene:Me too. Thank you very much. You can have me as much, anytime you want, as much as you want. It was a lovely, lovely conversation.
