Scenic Route, Social Change and Mental Health for Tired Perfectionists

Luck, Burnout & Lemon Cake: What 3 Years of The Scenic Route Taught Me About Slowing Down

• Jennifer Walter • Season 7 • Episode 111

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Three years, 111 episodes, and countless conversations later — host Jennifer Walter sits down for a full-circle moment with Lauren Best to celebrate The Scenic Route’s third birthday.

They flip the mic to talk about what really happens when you stop hustling and start listening: to your body, your luck, your burnout, and your joy. From viral posts to creative dry spells, from slow living to self-trust, this episode explores how to create — and live — at your own pace in a world that keeps shouting “more, faster, better.”

If you’ve ever wondered how to build a life that feels honest, sustainable, and still a little rebellious, this one’s for you.

In this episode, we talk about:

✨ What burnout taught Jennifer about rest, creativity, and play
 🍋 Why luck matters (more than hustle) — and how to make space for it
 💬 The power of Honest (Self-)Talk in work, art, and mental health
🌿 Learning to trust the process (even when it’s messy)
🎧 What it really means to “slow down” without giving up ambition
🔥 Why slow living is not an aesthetic — it’s a quiet rebellion


Perfect for you if…

You’re a smart, thoughtful woman juggling too many tabs open — craving more meaning, less noise, and permission to do life differently.
Think: academic brains, creative hearts, recovering perfectionists, and quietly radical feminists.


About Lauren
Lauren Best is a Transformation Designer, Wellness Facilitator, Certified Hypnotherapist, Multi-Best-Selling Author, Founder of Possibilities Universe, and Writer of Possibilities In Between on Substack. After navigating her own experiences with perfectionism, overwhelm, and burnout, she now guides people to trust themselves, take aligned action, and expand what’s possible in their work and lives.

Send me a DM

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Visit jenniferwalter.me – your cosy corner where recovering perfectionists, tired minds, and those done pretending to be fine find space to breathe, dream, and create real change.


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Lauren Best:

Hello. As you may be wondering whose voice you're hearing on the other side of the speaker today, we're switching things up a little bit. My name is Lauren Best, and I was honored to be a guest on this podcast on the Scenic Route three years ago. And now we're at the 111th episode. So I asked Jen, can I come on and turn the tables a little bit to celebrate such a big milestone in her journey and in the journey of the podcast? And so we're here to celebrate. We're here to ask all the juicy questions, to find out what it's been like these past three years of just creating a wonderful archive of stories and of different possibilities that we perhaps didn't see possible three years ago.

Jennifer Walter:

There's a different way to think about mental health. And it starts with slowing down. Sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home. And that's exactly where we're taking the scenic route. Hi, I'm Jennifer Walter, host of the Scenic Route Podcast. Think of me as your sociologist, sister in arms, and rebel with many causes. Together, we're blending critical thinking with compassion, mental health with a dash of rebellion, and personal healing with collective change. We're trading perfectionism for possibility and toxic positivity for messy growth. Each week, we're exploring the path to better mental health and social transformation. And yes, by the way, pretty crystals are totally optional. You ready to take the scenic route? Let's walk this path together.

Lauren Best:

So, welcome. I'm so excited to be on the other side.

Jennifer Walter:

Me too.

Lauren Best:

Well, the best part of this, and what's really cool, I think, because when we met three years ago, I was a little hypnotherapist starting my journey of like taking the scenic route and not feeling like I had to have it all figured out and still feeling the fear of all of that. And now have found this place where a lot of my work revolves around self-celebration and you know, you coming and being a little uncomfortable with that is exactly where we're meant to be right now.

Jennifer Walter:

And now I'm like, she's taking way too much pleasure out of this.

Lauren Best:

Oh my god. Well, because you know why? It's just so fun. Like, I used to definitely be that person that didn't want to like put myself out there in this way, or like, you know, it's like be humble, or like we should be thinking about what's next, what's uh next, what's next, right? And you know this. Like, how cool is it that we've decided to take the scenic way of living life, of doing things, of experiencing who it is we are as humans or business owners, or in relationships, all different types of relationships. So we're gonna like start off strong and I'm gonna pull a card for you from my deck. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, hypno for those who have not heard about this. It's a deck full of 50 cards that are all about celebrating yourself. So I'm gonna give a little shuffle and let's see like what comes up. This says a Kickstarter. This one's flying, flying high. Okay. Well, this is the perfect card for you. So this card invites you to share how your joy has rippled out to those around you.

Jennifer Walter:

Oh, my joy has ripped out. Oh, that's a really good one. Well, it's definitely not just joy that has rippled out through this podcast, that's for sure. Um but joy is really in like the like the the small like social media comments that come in and like oh like this was really helpful, or I have never thought of it this way, or like like all these little tiny notes, people leave me, and I'm like, yeah, this is exactly like why I'm still behind the mic, right? Well, people continue to reach out and just kind of like say what like what it meant to them to hear that, or some are also like, I heard that, and that got me thinking of this. Like, how does that sit with you? And then we're kind of like going to discussion, or sometimes this discussion ends up being uh me being on their like that person's podcast, and we hash it out. Um yeah, well, I mean, that's a great thing, right? Like, I I don't really um like come in with like oh, I have the answers, right? I mean, I think I do for that Polaroid picture of time, but I mean here's like look, this is what I'm thinking about, this is how you one could approach this. This is kind of like the theoretical base for it, and then that's my 50 pence on it, and like let me know what how that sits with you, right? Kind of like that's that's the whole thing, the whole shtick of it. Um, yeah, so those are definitely the small choice, how this rippled out into the world.

Lauren Best:

And the really cool thing, like I love this card, and I love that you got this too, also because there's waves on it and like sound waves of your podcast, so cute. Um, but like we don't always know, right? How our joy or how it is, whatever it is we're putting out into the world, we don't always like tangibly see or we don't always receive those comments. Like we can create and put things out into the world and not always fully know how it's impacting people or who it's reaching? Like, is that something that you ever thought about when you decided to put this podcast together and like begin to capture like your experiences and then also the experiences of all the amazing people that you've invited on? Like, is it something that you ever really considered like wow, this is going to be shared to so many people beyond like who who I can see and in places that maybe I never dreamed? Is that something you even thought about at all, or just kind of like now realizing?

Jennifer Walter:

I mean, I I kind of thought about it in the sense of like it would be cool, like if that would happen, or like vision board kind of material. Like at it was always kind of like I just kinda wanna feel I've at the beginning, it was I want to try this podcasting thing and see if I like it, um, and then see how it goes. And then it was more like you know, instead of me just talking to myself, I'm kind of like recording it and then just kind of like dropping it out. Um and like it's kind of like my virtual balcony to talk to the masses, but but like it's a good visual, I can imagine you like on the balcony reciting to the world. Yeah, it's very evita, but like, and then it was just I was kind of like, oh, like uh I see these very cool people online, and I'm curious what they think, and and then I'm like uh curious to to know like what that person thinks on this, or I saw um a social media post or uh something from someone like hey, this got me thinking, this is actually how I pitch most of my guests. Like, oh, I've I've seen you talk about this. This got me thinking about dad, like want to talk it over on my podcast, and um that surprisingly works really well. Um so yeah, it's nothing that I kind of like had in mind. I'm also not sure if you can fully fully plan that um like if you can really go out and be like, I'm gonna make like uh I don't know, um whatever kind of viral thing. I mean, I had a viral bit at the beginning of the year, I think in January, February this year, and that wasn't really something I planned. I didn't write what I wrote initially was uh on threads, um with the intention of this might better go viral or else. Yeah, so I don't know, there's just also a lot a big part of luck or just like the the right timing that's involved in it. Um yeah, so I don't know how you can fully plan this, and and still it's like I I have people listening in. Um and even like I was on a on a bit of a creative hiatus for the summer. I think I haven't put out a new episode in four months, uh, from like April, May, June, July, something like that. And this people still came in and listened to old episodes, and that is absolutely wonderful. And and yet, like, because this is like a fully self-funded show, right? I don't do ads, I don't do sponsorships. Not that my numbers probably not that anyone would give me money for my numbers, maybe for like niche. Yeah, maybe for niche, because I think it's quite a well-curated group of people who listen in. Um, but yeah, I mean, I would give a whole nother set of ideas because I don't really I don't do all these kind of like affiliate things because I don't know, they're most of them are not really my thing. Um, so yeah, uh, was it something I wished for? Sure. Could I really have planned the end? Probably not. I don't know.

Lauren Best:

I love that you mentioned luck because I was actually visiting a friend and her husband a few weeks ago, and the two of them were talking. I was, you know, asking them about their work and learning more about their work. And um, both of them were like, I wish people talked more about like the luck, like, yes, like you know, there's working hard, but also like wow, we're actually really lucky to work in such like a very small niche and receive so much work in that niche. Yeah, and like they both of them agreed, like, we don't put it past us that we got very lucky. So hearing that you like really wanted to celebrate that piece of luck, like how do you feel like believing in that luck has maybe shifted things for you? Like, is it something that you see like notice more in your life showing up in different ways? Or is it something that's like easier when you you know look back and can say, oh yeah, that was also like a piece of luck? Like, is it something you still incorporate it in like your present, kind of in this um casting of what could be possible as well?

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, that's a yeah, that's a good question. Um like from the very moment I kind of like see this, like I had this viral post, it was kind of like cascading. Um, I can't I always knew right then and there that's also dumb luck to some extent, right? And and behind the luck, there is the work, right? I mean I it it's putting out content, and not just in the sense of I'm just gonna, I don't know, give I don't know, post 50 things Chat GPT told me to write, right? But like genuine content, whatever form or what form that might look like for you, but there is the work behind the luck part, right? Because if I wouldn't have done the work, the luck wouldn't have mattered, it would have nowhere to land on and latch on, right? So if there was the work, and there's still the work with knowing, you know, sometimes it's just it needs uh maybe a little tweak and the luck latches. From a practical point of view, it definitely made me reshare things more often, maybe with like a different spin on it. Because the m as well as the message at the core might still be the same, it helps to kind of like have different spins on it for it to land with a group of people, and from there it can go viral, right? Like it's definitely gave me permission to kind of like just uh repeat more, not just like same, same, but with like light variations instead of always kind of like really like do something new, new, new, new. Um, and it also like helped me to really kind of like stay true to the initial process, which was just I'm doing this because I like doing it. Um and then may luck may Lady Luck bless me again, right? Like it's it's that kind of thing. Um and at the same time when when the whole viral thing went came on, and there were so many opportunities uh presenting itself suddenly, like some of them I took, and a lot of them I was like, Yeah, no, that's not that's not a fit. Um and I had a lot of people who were like, oh, like now you let you know you should I don't know hustle more or you should like get a PR agent and blah blah blah. And I'm like, yes, I could do all these things, but it just wasn't it didn't feel like the move to to for me. So it was like whatever will find me, find me. Right. And they had to found me once, it might find me again.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, I think I love that you talk about this because that was like one of my kind of core beliefs that I had to really work on over the last five years, or I got to really look at because it was something that would come up, this like fear of missing out, or this like you know, want feeling like maybe I should latch onto something because this opportunity is presented to me, and or if it's not like I need to keep chasing it, right? That chasing mentality and what you said, like, okay, being able to discern what is actually feeling good for you and not just something you think you should experience because people are saying, like, oh well, you should do this, you should do that, and it goes against that very essence of like why it is you started this project, right? And why it is you've like dedicated your life to finding like the beauty and doing things like maybe the long way around, but the the way that actually like allows you to show up for yourself first and and what it is you need and want and all of that. Is there anything you feel like looking back just to like manifest it to the universe that you're like feeling ready to call in? Because you know, it has been three beautiful years of bringing so much to life. Is there anything that you've been a little curious about in terms of like, hmm, this could be interesting or this could be new kind of place I haven't new path I haven't been down?

Jennifer Walter:

I've I've really rediscovered my love for writing. So and I don't really know where it is is going. Um right now, I think it might go down like the novel route, or like me writing a novel, but I'm not sure yet. Like there are pieces in me, but they're not they're not coming out in any order that makes sense right now. So that's probably a long part of the price. But in in speaking of the podcast, something I'd really like to try out is kind of like taking it offline again, like I don't know, doing like a re a reading somewhere, right? Or like um, I don't know, live QA sounds silly because I don't know, they're smarter people for me to it doesn't sound silly at all. It sounds like whatever kind of form, I don't know what kind of form it could have, but that is something I'm really like, I'm curious, really curious about because there is this on one hand, there's this set there we're all kind of like oversatisfied. Um there's just we're oversaturated with like online stuff, like I think it's just really ugh, and a lot of the the online spaces also have grown icky. Um and I feel even more people crave like offline communities and how this could become an offline thing, I'm not sure, but that would be really something that I'm like, hmm, maybe in 2026, let's see how this could look like.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, it sounds exciting, right? Because what it is like you are sharing through your experiences or other guests, right? Is things that we all experience in real life, right? What you've experienced in real life. So being able to like have that live experience, whatever form or shape that looks like, sounds like a beautiful experiment to just kind of see like, okay, what kind of path could this take me down that I never would have even thought of if I hadn't like just allow myself this space or like gathering with this group of people or like creating this type of stage or whatever it may be. So whatever you do, I'm coming to Switzerland. I love to do it.

Jennifer Walter:

I love it. I wanted to just say, like, oh, let's I'm like, we're doing like, I don't know, we're doing like a roadshow in Canada, but yeah, we can do that too. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I have your place to crash and my friends in Calgary, so I have two places to crash. Woohoo! Uh next Jeff Tree, her mom's. She's in Kitchener, Ontario, so I have two places to crash.

Lauren Best:

That's really cute. I was just in Kitchener a few weeks ago, and it's like imagine Canada I'd never been before, and it's just like I mean, why don't more people live here?

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, it's not like I've been there many times. Oh, I mean, you don't go there for beauty, like I don't want to upset Kitchener folks now.

Lauren Best:

There's two swans. There are two swans and they're gorgeous, gorgeous gals, guys. I don't know.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, I like I I was there when I was a teenager because oh really, she's one of my closest friends. They went, she went to school with me um here in Switzerland, and her mom's Canadian, and they moved back uh almost like 30 years ago at this point. And um, and I she often came visiting me and I went visiting her, and um, so yeah, so I uh profoundly remembered kind of Stoga Mall in Kitchener was a place to be back then.

Lauren Best:

That's really funny. Maybe, yeah, maybe we really revisit Kitchener together, that'd be hilarious. So when you like think about maybe like because you have so many friends, right, around the world and people you've been able to maybe connect with because of this podcast. Are there any people or like places where they live any like um because we're like getting back to like that joy and how it ripples and like sometimes we don't know how far we will reach? Is there any like where where you know this podcast has had that reach that was just like very unexpected to you? Like, oh wow, like I'm getting to connect with this person, and maybe they're maybe they're around the corner from you, but just like any unexpected, um, kind of like, oh, this is really cool moments.

Jennifer Walter:

Um in terms of listeners, like everyone, um I'm like, I don't know, someone brought me from Australia, and I'm like, I'll love it. Like that's and then in terms of guests, like um, I think one one of my personal highlights was for sure having Aja Barber on the podcast. Um, because like I read her book and I was just I'm just really like uh yeah, absolutely uh fascinated and how she kind of like treats also like the whole online sphere and um how she's going about this, and I'm like, yes, that was that was really really exciting. Um in terms of places that just made me think I don't think I've ever had an Irish guest on. Oh well, I had I had I had um people from the UK, loads of them, I had people from Scotland, but I don't think I've ever had anyone from Ireland. So if you're listening and want to come on the podcast from Ireland, you're in, right?

Lauren Best:

Who's gonna be the first? Bitch me. I love that. Okay, that's like the perfect, like I've I have the I've had this question, I feel like it's perfect to ask now. Who would be like a dream guest for you? Is there anyone that you've been thinking about or your heart's been fluttering about? Like whether it's like the work that they're putting into the world or like different questions they're asking. Anyone that has an exciting little invite that put out to the universe?

Jennifer Walter:

This is really tough because I don't think I've ever really thought about this. I knew I wanted to have Audra Barbara on. That was really something like, yes, yeah, yes.

Lauren Best:

Um what do you think can people what?

Jennifer Walter:

I think like I know who I don't want to have on, that's good. Yeah, like you know, the people who, if they would ever call, you would be like, mah, I'm good. Um I wouldn't even do it for the reach. Um, I think I mean who I would absolutely be fucking thrilled to have on, but would absolutely crap my pants would be Naomi Klein. Oh, okay. I would have no idea what I would ask her, but basically I would just ship my pants, but that would be really exciting.

Lauren Best:

That would be really exciting, a very good story.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, like yeah, so that like yeah, so that's kind of like that would be really, really exciting to draft Naomi Klein on the CD ground.

Lauren Best:

Oh my gosh. Well, you said it.

Jennifer Walter:

Yes, we're calling it into life now. Anyone knows, knows, knows, knows her or her agent. There you go.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, let Jennifer know.

Jennifer Walter:

What is it? 11 grads of separation, or what is it? Seventh grade? I don't know.

Lauren Best:

I thought it was like three degrees. Three degrees.

Jennifer Walter:

I even know. So okay. So don't even you know know someone. There you go. Off you go. Yeah, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Of course, like also, they're also like writers. Uh now. Oh, that is someone from Ireland and a writer, Claire Keegan. She's uh I she writes Irish short stories. Anyone know Claire Keegan? Bring her on the Cine Rob.

Lauren Best:

Oh my god. Okay, this is for I'm really glad that I asked this question because we're just putting two and two together now. It just makes sense. Yeah, oh my gosh. So when you like think about, you know, from season to season and how maybe you've changed as a person, are there any like very whether there are like subtle shifts or like bigger shifts that you've experienced? Like, are there any that you feel ready like in this moment to kind of look back on and acknowledge a little bit?

Jennifer Walter:

Um, for sure. I I think that the biggest shift that is obvious if you kind of like look at the history of the of the episodes and stuff, is I think up until episode 87, I think, they were all interviews, me interviewing someone, and from then on now until now, it's for it's more it's more it's more balanced with slightly leading to more person like just me talking episodes um and less interviews, yeah. So so that is definitely a shift. Um whereas before I also kind of like started out with wanting to share and like other other voices and other um ideas, so that was one thing, and then I don't know, and there was then there was this shift of like you know what I I could also just like talk to me, like just record how like my thought processes, yeah, um, and see how many people are are tuning in, and people stayed, yeah, with that. So I'm like, good lord, thank you.

Lauren Best:

How yeah, how did that feel to know like oh wow, it gets to be like just you and your thought? It's almost like right, it's it's like your journal because you're having this like stream of consciousness, these like brain damp of like all the thoughts that are have been percolating or the things you've been feeling or thinking. Like, how does that how did that feel to be like, oh wow, people are sticking around for this? Like they are interested in what's like in my brain.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, that was I mean, that was a really beautiful con like validation for sure. Um, and at the same time, like it's kind of like um, yeah, it also raises stakes at some point, right? Like, because I'm like now I'm sharing, I I don't have to, I I I like I wasn't hiding behind a guest, but I don't have a guest kind of like to to front and center now. Um, and although like my beliefs always came true with the interviews, it was truly now like just me, myself, and my and my crazy thoughts. Um so it was really like, oh, okay. I also kind of have to, I also don't want it just to be kind of like me rambling, right? I still I always strive to have this balance of we gotta have to rage against the system. This is crucial. And I want to I want you to leave this podcast with not just like utter despair, but with like I don't know, hope, choice or like or something and or something something tangible you can do yourself to feel better, like to really have this both and this kind of like having this antidote of oh, it's just like me, my mental health, and I where I'm like, Well, yes, it's important your mental health is important, but you can do affirmations all day long if you're living in a broken system, like it's not gonna do you much good, yeah. Um to kind of like bridge that. So, yeah, it was really always kind of like how okay, let's put this kind of like more on yeah, not me rambling, which I'm doing now.

Lauren Best:

Oh, you're well, this is the beautiful thing about this. It's your podcast and it's your stream of consciousness, right? Of like whatever it is, like, do you do you have this feeling before you start a podcast of like this trust of like I trust whatever I'm gonna say or whatever twists and turns gonna happen? Like, do you feel that reflected in this process? And then, like, as a part two, like, how have you allowed yourself to feel that in your life, right? Because there has had to probably be a lot of trust, even amongst the times where you felt like the fear is big or the systems are annoying, or this or that. Like, how has that building of trust been for you in the podcast and then like outside of it too? Yeah.

Jennifer Walter:

Um in the podcast, like what I do is um I have two what I have one process for interviews, which is I don't have I don't send like predefined questions to the people I interview. We agree on kind of like a general theme of the conversation, and then we just kind of like let it roll. This requires that. This requires like more prep on my part or more skill in leading the conversation depending on who I'm talking to. Um, to kind of like being able to pull the the all like everything kind of like back together, so listeners are like, okay, now I kind of I think I got the the point of this of this uh whole conversation, um, and really be like, oh okay, cool. Um so and when I my own episodes, I I kind of briefly sketch what I want to talk about, what are like my main points, yeah. Um and then I'm just kind of like having uh having a go at it, um and trying not to like edit too much or whatever. Um yeah, and there's this trust that yeah, what will land will land with it. Um I mean there have been episodes where that were more controversial, um and all I mean most of the episodes are like are Polaroid snapshots of that moment in time. Yeah, if I would go back now and do another episode on I don't know wild kindness, I probably would say something completely different. Yeah, and I also don't really know what I said in in my episodes, like moment, yeah. Because because I'm in, I'm in like I'm in my I'm in my flow. Like, yeah, you could ask me, you could tell me like, oh, this was like super smart thing you said there, and I would be like, huh, okay. And I would go through this transcript of like, oh, that was the bit, oh that was really fucking smart, right? Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't know. I'm I'm in my I'm in my stream of consciousness, I mean my flow. You you can ask me, I wouldn't know. Like, I would be like, What did I say that? Well, okay, that sounds smart. Maybe I did, I don't know. Um, like that's just completely different. Um and then so that's kind of like how I I trust how I grew to trust this creative process um of knowing, okay, um I and I mean that is based on years of knowing worst to worst, I can wing it. Yeah, like I can trust myself to wing it at a level that is more or less acceptably okay. Yeah, I mean, do I have conversations where I'm like, meah, I should have asked this too, of course, right? That's like I think that's that's the thing, right? Or when you listen to an old episode and then I don't know, we take a turn. Of course, I could re like go back and mull over that we could also have turn taken another turn, yeah. But it the it is the way it is, right? Like that's I don't know. I that's I don't know, crying over spilled milk. I don't think that's what's used. And if there's I don't know, we're just gonna invite the person again.

Lauren Best:

Well, exactly. And I think that's the really cool part, and like in you sharing, and I have a very similar thing, and I'm sure there's lots of other people like that when you're so present in the moment of like in your flow, right? I'll have the same thing, and I'm like, I have no idea what I said. And that's the beauty, I think, of having all of this captured, right? So like other people can go back, so you can go back if you feel like it, or if you're like, oh wow, this year later I'm listening to this, or someone's talking about this, and it's bringing up these questions for me because I've evolved as a person, right? You have different questions, right?

Jennifer Walter:

100%. And that's why I also think I'm also sharing old episodes because even when I like sometimes listen into like old episodes or reels from old episodes, I'm like, oh wow, this probably does mean does say something totally different to me than it did then. Yeah. So even if you're now like, oh, I've listened to all this in New Without episodes, like go back to episode one or two, like there's always because you have changed, the episodes will reveal another like kernel of truth to you.

Lauren Best:

Totally. And that's why I think like you sharing in the beginning how like repetition you've noticed like that is a big part of your work, and I think that's something that I also realized too when I began to feel like, oh, maybe I should like have new ideas or maybe I should like explore this. It was never like this space of like, oh wait, but I actually like it feels important to like look at this, right? And so going back to even looking at the archive of stuff that I've like thought about or written about, it's very much the same thing, but maybe in a little bit of a different flavor. Maybe this one's a little more zesty, maybe this one's a little bit Yeah, no, but but this is it, right? Like, I mean and it's these things that are important and why they keep circling back is because it's important like it is very impactful to have the same kind of things repeated, whether it's for ourselves, for other people, both in different ways, because they like like you said, they land differently, they land differently in different points of our lives or freezing in it a certain way lands differently, and it begins to make a little bit more sense as you go. But the beauty is like, yeah, we get to again just kind of have like new epiphanies, even though maybe you look back and you're like, oh yeah, like that is something that I was already thinking about three years ago and talking about and exploring, but now it just feels different, like there's a different evolution to it. Is that something like you resonate with?

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, absolutely. And it's always like also interesting to be yeah, give yourself the permission to reshare things, right? And I mean, of course, with that, the I mean, there was there's the odd voice every now and then of like there she goes, yapping on about like capitalism and like feminism, and like what and I'm like, yeah, fair point. I mean, at the end of the day, there's like there's only so many ways you can say, you look, you should take a breath, you should really breathe, just breathe, right? There's only so many ways you can actually say that, right? Because so many issues would be solved, you would just slow down and take a breath. But like, okay, so once we say that way, and then we phrase it slightly different, right? And that's also the thing of like what we had earlier with these repetitions, right? Just kind of like giving yourself the the idea the permission to like do variations of it, like hone it, go deeper, and not just like with always with something completely different. And I'm not necessarily doing a super good job about it, like there are people you know, okay, their shtick is like environment or like sustainability, and like okay, I'm kind of like in the intersection of like personal mental health, social change, uh fuck capitalism, and like somewhat political philosophy, sociology, whatever you want to call it. Um, and that in itself is like a super broad field, which is sometimes making it also hard for people to know, okay, what should we ask? What kind of question should we ask her? Like, what is she like qualified to talk about?

Lauren Best:

Where does this fit, right? This like body of work and curiosity and research essentially that you've created, right? And I always think about that too, like uh this is probably a year ago when I was like getting into my writing again as well, and thought, oh, well, if I read a book, like where would it fit in the bookstore, right? And I kind of just walked through a few bookstores and like you know, you look at the categories and you're like, where would this fit? And it's like like maybe you're not quite sure, or you're like, it could be here, here, and here. And like I just came up, I don't even know if this is a real thing, but I was like, it's like speculative, speculative philosophy. Like that's the whole point is maybe like not really knowing, but still like asking those questions, right? And I think there is this new, I don't know if it is a new genre of work that people are creating, and like, yes, as you said, your work could fit into all these different categories.

Jennifer Walter:

But I mean, where it would fit, like I know where it would fit, right? Like, my tradition of thinking is very much critical theory, yeah. Um, so that's like that's uh that's a that's a given, right? Like that would be where it would be in the bookshelf in a brick and mortar bookshelf, right? Like I mean, and and if you go with like critical theory, I mean, of course, you you go, I mean, you you have all you have work from like um Marcuse, I don't know, Horkheimer, you you have Nietzsche, Weber, Hegel, Marx, like it is that tradition um that it goes on mixed in with intersectional feminism work. So that's so kind of like that's the that's the the the the theoretical tradition that um or foundation. Um so yeah, in the bookshop in the bookshop I would be there in the critical theory or check out the bookshops in like a year or two from now, and that's the thing. I think I I think my first book's gonna be a novel, but yeah, I don't know. I mean it would be then it would be under like weird women tell stories. I don't know. I don't know. I really think it's gonna have some autobiographic notions in it. Yeah, I yeah, the fragments are coming, but they're all in uh in an order that doesn't make sense yet.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, yeah, I got that. I have my notes, my notes out is just messy. Yeah, well, and then sometimes I'm like, did I write that? Like I want to make sure I wrote that because I don't remember, right? I'm like, well, like, do I need to like Google this? Like, I don't know, right? But no, it's so yeah, so interesting, like, and there's that play to it, right? And so do you like feel like looking back, there is like um whether it's like a string of play that's like woven into the conception or the process or like what people will find amongst all the content you've created? Um how has that been like something that also is a priority for you amongst, you know, the you know, going against the systems and and ensuring like there is that element of you honoring the things that are also like very important to you? How yeah, how has like play been a piece of that?

Jennifer Walter:

I mean play has has been a big part of everything I do since I like literally burned out, and and it's just kind of like okay, let's just see what feels fun. Um and I mean in terms of like raching against the system, it's always kind of like I mean yes, I try, and then at the same time I'm like playing by the algorithms uh of social media apps, and it's very much not raging against the system, um and like all these all these things, but play, yeah, play has always been a big part of it, um, and just kind of like curiosity and and like almost maybe childlike curiosity and just being like, you know, would that be fun to do and then just kind of like go see it? Um because yeah, I was at the point where I did so many things that weren't fun at all. And I'm not saying everything should be fun and like yaddy yaddy some toxic posity shit, but I mean there's always things you might not like to do as much, um, but you see like they're part of the process or whatever. Um at the end of the day, right? If every if I don't know, if the the scale tips and you realize, I don't know, more than I want, more than my fair share of things I do are not fun. That yeah, that was really not a nice wake-up call for me back there, like a couple of years ago.

Lauren Best:

And so now, like being in this moment, like in the future of all those things that happened like all those years ago, um, are there like different ingredients aside from play that you feel like have been those like instrumental ingredients that have allowed you to navigate the scenic route in a way that has been like giving you that yourself that permission to like prioritize or to play or to whatever it is, like nourishment or whatever it is you needed. Like if you if you had to bake a cake, maybe what would those like little ingredients be?

Jennifer Walter:

Oh, scenic route cake.

Lauren Best:

Scenic cake, cupcakes, whatever. It doesn't have to be a cake. Yeah.

Jennifer Walter:

No, I want cake though. Um well it's this, it's surely a um, I don't know, you need one or two cups of self-trust if we're gonna stay with a baking metaphor. Yeah, like just kind of like this thing that you can rely on yourself and that you'll have your back, even if I don't know, everything goes to shit. Um you will treat yourself with kindness and compassion and not like crap all over yourself. And the meaning, you know, these words sometimes we're almost too afraid to do something because we know we're like we might be our own worst enemy and like give ourselves crap about it, and like that voice, like, oh I told you this was a stupid idea, you dumb bitch, right? Like that kind of um nagging inside voice, so really kind of like and and that's and that's always kind of the mistake people make of like, oh, then she maybe she was born with it, right? But like maybe, but also a lot of that self-trust thing, yeah, and to and all other things, compassion, kindness, and so on, it's really a muscle, right? You you you have to start where you're at and then kind of like grow it, grow it incrementally, step by step. Yeah, it it will grow, right? When you attend to it and when you work with it, and when you like stretch it, and then it grows a bit, and then you stretch it again and it grows a bit more. Um in that process is really shit, it's not fun. Right? It's it's that awkward phase of I I did some, I'm like, you know, when you start doing something, like, yeah, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna you're full of like woohoo, right? And between that and like seeing the first fruits of your labor, right? That that in the middle part, the messy in the middle where a lot of people quit or a lot of people are like losing faith, that's really where it's kind of like you gotta keep on going. And I know it feels shit, it's not fun to be there, right? But the more the more resilient uh you uh you you you yourself can be in these parts, like the easier you will walk through them.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like amongst that discomfort, I guess, how like for you and choosing right to keep going and choosing to like still believe in yourself and trust yourself amongst that discomfort, like how has that now like in this moment, like you being able to celebrate that? Is that something that is like easier for you to celebrate, or is it something that still feels like just as maybe uncomfortable as expected, or as uncomfortable like you know, talking about it now and how it is shitty, right?

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, like I it's easier in um in some aspects as I've built a muscle, I have memories that are like locked in my body, and my body like remembers of how that was and how that felt like and at the same time it doesn't always translate to other areas of your life or whatever, right? You might be you might have had you might have great business resilience, doesn't necessarily mean though you I don't know you hold yourself with compassion and resilience in other areas, right?

Lauren Best:

Yeah and so yeah you go no no go it looked like you were processing something else.

Jennifer Walter:

I guess that was kind of I'm always processing something else, yeah.

Lauren Best:

It kind of leads me to this idea, right? Of like maybe feeling like we need to have it all and we need to have it all all at once, right? Like, even though we have this resilience in one part of our lives and we don't in the other, there can be that gap for people to give up because they're like, Well, why don't I have it all? Why don't I have it all right now? Is that something that you've um ever like just from starting, like who you were before the podcast and who you are now? Is that something that feels a lot different for you? Like in that contrast of you know, the Jennifer before really like making this decision to go on the like scenic route, um, and who you are now, like is yeah, is that does that gap um that discomfort maybe sometimes between that gap, like do you really feel like yeah, it it even though I know it's there, like there is that power and strength in knowing like it I don't have to have it all all at once.

Jennifer Walter:

Oh, this is almost kind of like very deep philosophical question where I'm like maybe you don't have to have no day. I don't know, because choosing always closes other possibilities, that's just the way it goes, right? Like um, and that's okay because I think a lot of the time people really struggle with just making a goddamn decision, yeah. And most decisions you can take are reversible, and you can always kind of like choose again and choose differently, but it's I I really found that this whole having it all, it it's very um uh consumerist, perfectionist, neocapitalistic sense. Um it's quite unsustainable literally for anything and anyone, right? Um and if and if you really think about it when you think really think about the paradox of you know, if you chase everything, if you want to have it all, you have to chase everything, right? So kind of like that. And if you do that, you undermine your own autonomy, right? You live by external ideals that should be everything because you can't have it all, right? If you have it all, you chase everything, you don't really you chase what everyone else thinks you should have, and it isn't anymore about what you uh want to have, or more concrete about you having what matters most to you, so it's really about being conscious of your own autonomy and your own agency in this, and actually thinking like, okay, what matters to me most, and go after that, yeah.

Lauren Best:

And that's what will take you down the path to who's knows where and who knows what way, won't it? Yeah, for better or for worse. Well, it brought us to this moment right here, right now. And before we started, you had mentioned it was like almost three years ago to the day um where we've met for the first time and were able to record an episode for this very podcast. So that feels really cool and very lucky, I would say. Um, so kind of just one last question, like looking forward, you had mentioned there's, you know, this desire to maybe see what it looks like offline a little bit for the podcast. Is there anything else that you're excited to like share with people, whether it came up in this conversation, whether it was kind of like an inkling that you've been having recently? Anything that you're um hoping to share like in the episodes to come that people can kind of get excited for?

Jennifer Walter:

Oh that's the thing. Like, I don't really plan like all these episodes out like so much in advance, right? So I'm like, I I actually don't even know what we're gonna talk about next week. Um so it will come to me and then I'll record. So this has become very much of um of a kind of like do what comes in front of me that I feel like I there's something I need to say about this. Um and I don't know, I really don't know yet what it would be, what that might look like. Um but yeah, I'm I'm curious of maybe I don't know, see how like where it goes, right? Maybe right now a lot of it's kind of like a mix between self-help and like system critique, which I love. Um and there is always kind of like a sense of I I feel it should always be fun to listen to, and there maybe are some comedy elements in it. I don't know, and I'm sometimes thinking like, oh, I don't know, maybe it would be fun to do to do like a fun episode, you know, like something that at first glance seems absolute nonsense, but then when you think about it, it's actually deeper than you think. Yeah, I once had an idea of um I recently bought two two cookbooks and I shared them on my stories, and then uh I got someone wrote me like, oh, this is cool, like these look great. Are they cool? Are they great? Like, because the last two cookbooks I bought were shit, yeah. So I'm like, oh, and then I had like a whole outline of like how to choose the right cookbook for you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that because having a whole outline for an episode I could do and like how to choose the right cookbook.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, I'm a cookbook collector, so um, and like in the vegetarian um sector, yeah. But it's like it was this thing where I had to eventually like tell myself like you need to stop because I wouldn't use them because they're I'm just like, oh, like it was almost about the collecting and the curating. So it's interesting that curating element, I'm ready for that episode, my god.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, like so I'm I've I've really let go of the curate, like I I boiled it down to like a neat family. I'm looking over there where my book books are. I'm like, yes, I'm talking about you, you bad boys, like but it's it's a creative space, um, and it has slimmed down over the years, yeah. So, and and then I don't know, I had this outline and this idea, and then it was like really, yeah. It again, choosing the right cookbook depends again on you being really honest with yourself, you know, like the same way you buy shoes and outfits for that person you might be someday. You buy cookbooks for you might be that cook or host someday.

Lauren Best:

I love that. What a good way to look look at it, right?

Jennifer Walter:

So then I'm like, should I do this? Is not isn't this like too trivial or like too nonsense y. And then I'm like, well, people know I'm weird, so I probably could get away with it. Like, so episode will come. Maybe it will even come before you listen to this podcast. Oh my gosh, right? But just know it has a long story of coming into existence.

Lauren Best:

Oh my gosh, I love that. And maybe this is that invitation for you to like give yourself that permission to embrace more of that weird because we love that weird, and it gives other people permission to embrace more of their weird too, right? And just like do the thing they've been thinking about because it's fun, right?

Jennifer Walter:

Because it's exactly and because it's fun and and also because there it's not frivolous, right? There is always you can always tie it back to something that is to a message that's truly important to you. And and then again, right? I oh, I even had uh I remember I even had a really good intro of something along the lines of if you think like this is like super unlike totally like frivolous and not serious to talk about cookbooks given whatever. I can tell you I take my food very seriously.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh. Well, maybe it's scribbled in my notes, yeah.

Jennifer Walter:

So I'm like, yeah, okay, maybe it's coming into existence. How to choose the perfect cookbook.

Lauren Best:

I'm like, oh, can I come for a supper club? Right? Oh my gosh. Well, it's always so fun.

Jennifer Walter:

When you're here, you can you you'll you'll you come over.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, right.

Jennifer Walter:

And then I'll I'll either bring one of my cookbooks or you can help me pick, or you can give me the the You don't have to bring your own cookbooks, that would be literally insane because I have so many, and they're like most, I would say 90% of them are in English. Um a lot of them are also vegetarian or vegan or have vegetarian or vegan options in them. So it would be literally insane.

Lauren Best:

Oh my gosh, it's so good. Well, perfect. And then we can move through the criteria of like me and my home hand luggage is overweight because I brought cookbooks. It wouldn't be the first time that I've done that.

Jennifer Walter:

True, true. I mean, usually it's on my way back from places where I'm like, oh, oh, ooh, no, she could do it. Um yeah.

Lauren Best:

Add it in. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for just like having the space for people to explore and get curious. And like having three years of the scenic route is a big, big celebration, like for you, but I think for all the people who have been listening, whether it was from the beginning or like even recently, right? Like, there's just such a beautiful collection of like it's like data, it's like inspiration, it's like storytelling, it's like all the things, right? And so just thank you for creating this for all of us to be a part of and to enjoy in whatever way we all do. Um, and just like hats off to you. I'm so glad that I get to the scenic route with you too, and it's brought us together. And I I can't imagine what my life would be like without this podcast, which is how we connected. So I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much.

Jennifer Walter:

Thank you so much for turning tables with this uh magical episode 111.

Speaker 3:

111.

Jennifer Walter:

111, very magical episode. And yeah, this is yeah, this is the really the joyful thing, right? Like you never know who comes like crosses your path because of something you put out. Um and it's also not really yeah, as as I said at the beginning, right? A lot also love plays into it, and so it's really give yourself permission to not maybe fully know for whom this is for that you're creating, yeah, and then create and then see where it should be so people can find it.

Lauren Best:

I love that. It's such good advice because we hear all too much that we need to know who our audience is, who we're speaking to, this and that. But like you said, when it comes from the heart, like there's no better, stronger, like beautiful place than that.

Jennifer Walter:

So yeah, and I mean, you know, that there's I mean I worked in brand and design for over 20 years, so there is married to that. There is, yeah. Like I would really be like, you know, most of us have not been, didn't go into like our careers or self-employments because we like, oh, we love digital marketing and social media, right? Like most of us were like, I want to do this thing or I wanna create this thing, and you know how I don't know if there's like an if imagine if if you're like I think a lot of service writers do this. If if you're an artist, you paint the painting the way you think you wanna pay you wanna paint it. I hope anyway. I I don't think you're like, oh, I know my pink paintings sell better than my green paintings, so I'm just gonna paint pink now. I mean, one one way to look at things, um, but I like true creativity is deeper than that. So you're just gonna paint however you want to paint, what to kind of like as an expression, and then you go look, okay, how can I market this? How can I like where does it need to be for people to be seen? Yeah, and not just kind of create with unless you're creating a very problem, like unless you're really like I see they have a problem, and I'm gonna create a product or solution for that problem, different story. But right, if you're like a book or a podcast or a painting or whatever it is, I wouldn't create with them in mind.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, yeah, there's a time, there's a time and a place and a way for everything, and sometimes we don't need to have all those details, and sometimes we do, but for the times we don't, then yeah, if we can just follow like from that create from the heart and then kind of like and then tailor your your marketing to to the different to whomever. Yeah, another ingredient for the cake.

Jennifer Walter:

Yes, yes, yes, no one really wanted cake.

Lauren Best:

Oh my gosh. Well, if you had to um like you know how people ask, like, what is your what animal would you be? If if the scenic route had was a cake, what cake would it be?

Jennifer Walter:

Oh my god. Um what cake would a scenic route be? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe you would say something with an unexpected twist. You know, something, you know, something like solid caramel, you know, like it's both. And you're like, uh-uh-uh-uh. Um I don't know, maybe, maybe something lemony lemony, lemon olive oily, lemon olive oil bomb cake or something.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh. You know, like the bake off. So that's what I'm thinking. Like simple, it sounds simple, but it's complex. Yeah, and it's delicious.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, yes, it's it has to be delicious, otherwise it's whatever. And it and it's not like it's not of one of it's definitely not one of those like super glossy, glossy, um, overdone cakes, you know, with the icing and whatever and whatnot. It's more like maybe one of those like naked cakes or those rough cakes, where it's kind of like I don't know, it just looks the way it looks.

Lauren Best:

A little organic, a little unexpected.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, definitely not one of those like sugar-coated perfect cakes.

Lauren Best:

No, oh my gosh. Well, that's gonna be a great way to celebrate this. So when you get that recipe together, you can let us know.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, the Cine Groud Lemon Olive bun cake.

Lauren Best:

Yeah, oh my gosh.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, I uh we'll have to come up with this or someone who is better skilled in baking than I am.

Lauren Best:

I love it. We'll we'll make it together.

Jennifer Walter:

That sounds good. Yeah, you you bring your butt over and we do that.

unknown:

Yeah.

Lauren Best:

Oh, well, this is so fun. I literally my cheeks always hurt after I chat with you, but and today's definitely not different.

Jennifer Walter:

So well, thank you so much for switching tables with me.

Lauren Best:

Thank you for being willing to do this and for like trusting me through this process. I, you know, I feel like whenever we're together, it just really flows, and I'm always curious about your inner working. So thank you for showing up with that honesty as you always do and that trust. And yeah, it really means the world to me. And I can't wait to see what's next.

Speaker 3:

Whatever it's coming.

Jennifer Walter:

Me too. Bye. Bye. And just like that, we've reached the end of another journey together on the Scenic Groot Podcast. Thank you for spending time with us. Curious for more stories or in search of the resources mentioned in today's episode, visit us at scenegrootpodcast.com for everything you need. And if you're ready to embrace your scenic root, I have got something special for you. Step off the beaten path with my scenic root affirmation card deck. It's crafted for those moments when you're seeking courage, yearning to trust your inner voice, and eager to carve out a path authentically, unmistakably yours. Pick your scenic root affirmation today and let it support you. Excited about where your journey might lead? I certainly am. Remember, the scenic route is not just about a destination, but the experiences, learnings, and joy we discover along the way. Thank you for being here, and I look forward to seeing you on the scenic route again.

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Jennifer Walter | Swiss Sociologist & Mental Health Advocat

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